As and adult, is it possible to learn two languages to a high level of fluency at the same time?

General discussion about learning languages
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sfuqua
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As and adult, is it possible to learn two languages to a high level of fluency at the same time?

Postby sfuqua » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:23 pm

Of course people who grow up in a household with two languages often become native speakers of both.
If an adult is in an environment where they can learn two languages, either through study alone or through immersion and study, can they learn both at the same time, or should they concentrate on one at a time?

I study languages for fun, so I don't care much about efficiency. However, adding French to my Spanish studies slowed my Spanish progress to a crawl. But maybe it only cut it in half, as one would expect from simple "time on task."
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luke
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Re: As and adult, is it possible to learn two languages to a high level of fluency at the same time?

Postby luke » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:37 pm

sfuqua wrote:I study languages for fun, so I don't care much about efficiency. However, adding French to my Spanish studies slowed my Spanish progress to a crawl. But maybe it only cut it in half, as one would expect from simple "time on task."

I don't have a definitive answer, but I've gone both routes:

Obsessive focus on one language (which I'm doing now again with Spanish) :)

Doing French and Spanish and Esperanto bit by bit all together each day.

I've made best progress by leveraging my obsessive nature and sticking to a single thing.

Doing the "bit of each" was perhaps enjoyable and helpful (at least a little for each language), I never felt like I was approaching the mastery , or "high level of fluency" as you called it, that I was actually trying to achieve.

Reminds me of something Scott McNealy, the founder and then CEO of Sun Microsystems once said, and was what their company did, and they ended up creaming all the competition:

All the wood behind one arrow!

I like that.
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Re: As and adult, is it possible to learn two languages to a high level of fluency at the same time?

Postby lusan » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:45 pm

sfuqua wrote: adding French to my Spanish studies slowed my Spanish progress to a crawl.


I experienced the same when I began to take seriously il italiano. I ended up pushing French and Polish to storage. Now my dilemma finding a way to return to French without degrading what I accomplished with Italian.
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Re: As and adult, is it possible to learn two languages to a high level of fluency at the same time?

Postby lusan » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:46 pm

luke wrote:
All the wood behind one arrow!



Love it. I will steal it.
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Re: As and adult, is it possible to learn two languages to a high level of fluency at the same time?

Postby einzelne » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:51 pm

I personally seriously doubt it.
But what do you mean by "high level of fluency"? Sadly, the world "fluency" became completely meaningless. Could you specify?
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Re: As and adult, is it possible to learn two languages to a high level of fluency at the same time?

Postby Le Baron » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:55 pm

I'd say it's a matter of what you want to achieve, who you are, and how you define 'to a high level of fluency'.

A lot of those who, as an adult, end up in a relationship with a speaker of a different language tend to learn the language. And even then it's sometimes not always to a 'high level of fluency'. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. Even with study.

I try to make comparisons with anything which is learned. Can I learn Tennis and golf at the same time, to a high level? Why? Why not? Can I learn algebra and watercolour painting at the same time? Perhaps languages can compliment each other in some ways, sometimes not.
The main thing for me being you can only put so much energy forth and the thinner you spread it...well you know the rest. Which is why people search for efficiency methodologies, though as we know this is an endless task and highly disputed. There's also 'time'.

Some people just believe it is possible (because if you really want it yourself it's necessary to) and have examples of people who did it. Others will be sceptical and point to a rather larger number of failures. If a person is motivated, fairly seasoned as a learner, has a lot of time and opportunities for developing it, then yes. But who has all that?
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Re: As and adult, is it possible to learn two languages to a high level of fluency at the same time?

Postby einzelne » Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:00 pm

lusan wrote:I experienced the same when I began to take seriously il italiano. I ended up pushing French and Polish to storage. Now my dilemma finding a way to return to French without degrading what I accomplished with Italian.


Basically, the same story. I have a firm hold in 3 languages. However, when I deliberately work on expanding my vocabulary, I can only concentrate on one of them (keeping others at low maintenance mode — just randomly listening to radio podcasts now and then). I tried to allocate small chunks of time for other 2 languages every single day (like reviewing 10 new words per day and read regularly 5-10 pages in each of them — 30 minutes for each) but always failed to stick to the routine. And when I don't read or listen to a language, I find it useless to repeat or learn new vocabulary — you need to read and listen to make your vocabulary sessions effective.
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Re: As and adult, is it possible to learn two languages to a high level of fluency at the same time?

Postby lusan » Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:52 pm

einzelne wrote:
lusan wrote:I experienced the same when I began to take seriously il italiano. I ended up pushing French and Polish to storage. Now my dilemma finding a way to return to French without degrading what I accomplished with Italian.


Basically, the same story. I have a firm hold in 3 languages. However, when I deliberately work on expanding my vocabulary, I can only concentrate on one of them (keeping others at low maintenance mode — just randomly listening to radio podcasts now and then). I tried to allocate small chunks of time for other 2 languages every single day (like reviewing 10 new words per day and read regularly 5-10 pages in each of them — 30 minutes for each) but always failed to stick to the routine. And when I don't read or listen to a language, I find it useless to repeat or learn new vocabulary — you need to read and listen to make your vocabulary sessions effective.


Till I find a better way...this is what I am doing....

Polish:
Listening for understanding 3000 sentences made from Glossika.
About 20 min

French.
The same with 9000 cards that I made.

Spanish:
Nothing. I count on the fact that I am native. Spanish runs in my blood and cohabite in my DNA.

English:
Nothing. I live in USA.

Polish and French together use about 40 min of my time.
Eventually, I have to develop a system to do better.
I am not happy with what I do.
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Re: As an adult, is it possible to learn two languages to a high level of fluency at the same time?

Postby Iversen » Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:20 pm

Of course it all depends on what you mean by "high level of fluency". But I have pushed quite a few languages to a level where I can speak them fluently - but not totally without errors and not totally without an accent (or in other words: I sound like myself in all my languages). However I don't think I ever have started two new languages at exactly the same time - one always got a headstart, and then I started one more when the first had acquired its own identity (or whatever you call it). And I can't see any big problem in working on two languages at the same time - otherwise I would have a problem...
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sfuqua
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Re: As and adult, is it possible to learn two languages to a high level of fluency at the same time?

Postby sfuqua » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:00 pm

Oh God, did I really say fluency!?
I'm sorry,

I agree that the word has become meaningless. I sure don't want to argue about what it means...

I should have said something like, does anybody ever take 2 languages from A1 to C1 while studying both each day/week?

Once again, I'm sorry about using the "F" word.
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荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...


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