Is it worth taking a language exam? (DELE)

General discussion about learning languages
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Le Baron
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Re: Is it worth taking a language exam? (DELE)

Postby Le Baron » Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:51 am

Cavesa wrote:Does this really need to be said? Why should those two things be exclusive?

I only added that because it seems to me some people think a CV bulked-up with a couple of languages ought to make up for being perhaps not the best candidate in the intended job area.

It does seem to make a difference in some recruitment, though I can't think why. It's not as if most jobs require multi-lingual communication day-in-day-out. However the narrative is that knowing even just one extra language somehow makes candidates - and people in general - 'better people'. It's a very hazy conception of 'being educated'.
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Re: Is it worth taking a language exam? (DELE)

Postby SalzSäule » Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:04 pm

Le Baron wrote:It does seem to make a difference in some recruitment, though I can't think why. It's not as if most jobs require multi-lingual communication day-in-day-out. However the narrative is that knowing even just one extra language somehow makes candidates - and people in general - 'better people'. It's a very hazy conception of 'being educated'.


I don't think it's as simple as 'this person is better' really, and I do actually get why employers value something like proficiency of a foreign language.

Above all, to acquire a language to a proficient level is not exactly an easy feat and, for me, would be one of the biggest signs on someone's CV that they are able to commit themselves to something for a long time despite trials and tribulations. And certainly as people become more and more educated, with the value of a Bachelor's Degree in many English-speaking countries becoming diminished, employers have to look at something else which can help distinguish candidates from one another.

Whilst a lot of jobs certainly don't require the use of multiple languages on a daily basis, it can also be helpful for an employer to know they have someone who can deal in a foreign language should the occasion arise. This is particular relevance if we're talking about a company which deals in multiple countries or deals with other businesses in other countries. Even if you are active in a relatively low-skilled job but happen to live near the border, or in a place with an extremely large amount of immigration, it's of value.

So, although I obviously have some bias, I really do understand in many circumstances why an employer would place worth on it. It shouldn't automatically mean someone is better than someone else, but, if I were employing someone and had to decide between two roughly equal candidates, but one of them had learnt two languages in their spare time, I would pick them.
Last edited by SalzSäule on Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is it worth taking a language exam? (DELE)

Postby Cavesa » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:07 am

SalzSäule wrote:
Cavesa wrote:It does seem to make a difference in some recruitment, though I can't think why. It's not as if most jobs require multi-lingual communication day-in-day-out. However the narrative is that knowing even just one extra language somehow makes candidates - and people in general - 'better people'. It's a very hazy conception of 'being educated'.


I don't think it's as simple as 'this person is better' really, and I do actually get why employers value something like proficiency of a foreign language.

Above all, to acquire a language to a proficient level is not exactly an easy feat and, for me, would be one of the biggest signs on someone's CV that they are able to commit themselves to something for a long time despite trials and tribulations. And certainly as people become more and more educated, with the value of a Bachelor's Degree in many English-speaking countries becoming diminished, employers have to look at something else which can help distinguish candidates from one another.

Whilst a lot of jobs certainly don't require the use of multiple languages on a daily basis, it can also be helpful for an employer to know they have someone who can deal in a foreign language should the occasion arise. This is particular relevance if we're talking about a company which deals in multiple countries or deals with other businesses in other countries. Even if you are active in a relatively low-skilled job but happen to live near the border, or in a place with an extremely large amount of immigration, it's of value.

So, although I obviously have some bias, I really do understand in many circumstances why an employer would place worth on it. It shouldn't automatically mean someone is better than someone else, but, if I were employing someone and had to decide between two roughly equal candidates, but one of them had learnt two languages in their spare time, I would pick them.


You've quoted a wrong person. This is not my quote, it is LeBaron's.

But as to the reasons why a foreign language looks good even in applications to not language related jobs:
-it is seen as an accomplishment of having done something really boring and hard just to be more educated
-it is seen as a sign of not being a narrow minded moron
-in some cases, demanding a not needed language (most commonly English for jobs that require no communication with anyone likely to be foreign) is a simple way to allow the HR to easily throw away a part of the large pile of applications.

But in many situations, I think a person with more languages but only good professional skills should be given precedence over a person with awesome professional skills and no languages. In some sectors of healthcare (any primary contact service), social services, and so on, languages can really make a lot of a difference (including life and death difference at times). But that is one type of a job market situation, where languages get severely underestimated all the time.
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Re: Is it worth taking a language exam? (DELE)

Postby SalzSäule » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:18 am

Cavesa wrote:You've quoted a wrong person. This is not my quote, it is LeBaron's.


My bad. I even edited to the post before to correct the quote and instead of correcting it I made it even worse :cry:
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Re: Is it worth taking a language exam? (DELE)

Postby Le Baron » Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:40 pm

I can take those factors into account and yet still the certificate is only as good as the other certificates an applicant is offering. If they were all an ultimate arbiter of skill and dedication interviews would be just lip service. In an interview a lot of the time employers know that all those making it to the interview (extra languages or not) have been judged to have the requisite qualifications. The interview is to gauge the 'person'.
What employers try hardest to avoid is people who are 'psychologically' a liability. Those who would possibly end up being let go after a short time or whose aims and ideas don't gel with the aims of the company. They're not attempting to serve you, but purchase an asset. It's a cold way of looking at it, but that's what it is.

Is a language a company asset? Yes, if that's what the job would benefit from. Many jobs seeing that as necessity or at least a bankable asset tend to specify this in the job summary. And they don't even have to spend any money training you up for it. The point I made further up is that for everyone with that certificate on their CV, not all of them can deliver the goods. I'm not saying 'don't bother to get a language certificate' or 'don't study languages', but that don't assume it will bag you a job.
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Re: Is it worth taking a language exam? (DELE)

Postby mthornt1 » Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:06 am

So I'm super late to this conversation, but this interests me. Really it depends on the role. I've been a recruiter for a couple large, multi-national corporations, and currently work for one founded in Sweden that probably everyone on this thread is familiar with...

The language component sometimes just comes down to the market you're in. Someone living in Spain, Belgium, Canada, USA, etc... where there is more than 1 official language, or a strong presence of a 2nd language, and sometimes 3rd language is a definite tie-breaker even if that specific role doesn't require it. However not once in my career so far has anyone decided the language ability of someone based on an exam result on their resume (however just being able to add proficiency in a relevant language to that market will help in landing an interview). If the role requires a certain language, we ALWAYS have a native speaker or speakers who currently work for the company give us their evaluation of the candidate's language ability and include them in the interview process to insure the candidate can perform to the level they describe. Most recruiters, unless interested in language learning themselves, will simply go by what the candidate says they're capable of on their resume (at least Spanish for USA, and French for Canada) and won't necessarily be familiar with DELE, DALF, etc... I've even recruited for candidates that were required to speak 3 languages, or 4! For example, English, French, Mandarin, and Cantonese, along with financial certifications and experience, lots of fun! Almost none of them had any certifications, exams, etc... proving proficiency, it was just based on whether existing employees felt they "sounded good" or not.

Anyway, it doesn't hurt to have the proof via exam, but unless a role specifically calls for that exam result, it doesn't matter (at least in the roles I've hired for which are mostly corporate and/or leadership). It simply comes down to can you deliver at the desired level in that language or not. Having the ability even if the role doesn't call for it is certainly a tie-breaker. That said, I'm still going to pursue a DELE C1, and a DALF C1 simply for the personal satisfaction of having achieved them. Who knows, maybe they'll be relevant for me in the future in terms of a career opportunity or some immigration situation (I'd love to get a 3rd passport someday). For me it's been either that route, or to pursue an MA in Romance/Modern Languages and shell out waaaayyyy more money unnecessarily. I know they're not the same though, and if money weren't an issue I'd totally do the MA for other reasons. However at the end of the day, just being comfortable in my 2nd and 3rd languages and being able to use them at work and personal life on a regular basis would do the trick for me.
Last edited by mthornt1 on Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is it worth taking a language exam? (DELE)

Postby Le Baron » Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:44 pm

mthornt1 wrote: However not once in my career so far has anyone decided the language ability of someone based on an exam result on their resume (however just being able to add proficiency in a relevant language to that market will help in landing an interview). If the role requires a certain language, we ALWAYS have a native speaker or speakers who currently work for the company give us their evaluation of the candidate's language ability and include them in the interview process to insure the candidate can perform to the level they describe. Most recruiters, unless interested in language learning themselves, will simply go by what the candidate says they're capable of on their resume

Are those two bolded bits not contradictory?
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Re: Is it worth taking a language exam? (DELE)

Postby mthornt1 » Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:27 am

Hello There,

I see what you mean... that second bolded line is meant to say that unless the recruiter is familiar what the DELF, DALF, DELE, etc... actually are and what the corresponding levels mean, they will only go based on the candidate resume saying "Spanish Language skills" or "Proficient in French"... and accept that as the truth. Simply put, I'm yet to see anyone go by exam scores in the hiring process.
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