Grammar fascination
- Suzie
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Re: Grammar fascination
Definitely love at first sight - already as a school kid. This is even more weird, as my knowledge of French grammar is so poor, and I haven't succeeded to master it for more than two decades now - but I blame my troubled past with the language rather than the grammar itself. I have returned to make things right this time, and working my way to the grammar in a structured way (and resisting the temptation to take shortcuts along the way) not only starts to pay off after only a few weeks, but turns out to be quite enjoyable.
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Re: Grammar fascination
I put hit it off right away in that the first time I ever saw descriptive grammar in a non-English language I was immediately fascinated by it. I didn't like being force fed prescriptive grammar in K-12 and university English courses.
I've also come to appreciate grammar more as I've learned to make the distinction between internalizing language usage into procedural memory (skill-based memory) via practicing actual language skills versus rote memorization of grammatical facts and table into declarative memory (fact-based memory).
I've also come to appreciate grammar more as I've learned to make the distinction between internalizing language usage into procedural memory (skill-based memory) via practicing actual language skills versus rote memorization of grammatical facts and table into declarative memory (fact-based memory).
Last edited by Steve on Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Grammar fascination
I really enjoyed it a lot in the past when I began to learn German, because of multiple reasons really:
i. At A-Level (UK, old spec.) they really emphasised grammar in essays and it was very easy to get full marks for that if you just threw in some advanced constructions.
ii. I think I had this idea that if I binged Hammer's German Grammar I would have learnt all there is to know very naive. But it definitely gave me a very significant edge in my education, which became noticeable at uni whilst my fellow classmates were still trying to battle with certain aspects of grammar.
Now I'm rather indifferent to it. I like to really figure out for myself why something is the way it is, or just accept that it is. I only really try and actively learn grammar if something is beyond my grasp.
i. At A-Level (UK, old spec.) they really emphasised grammar in essays and it was very easy to get full marks for that if you just threw in some advanced constructions.
ii. I think I had this idea that if I binged Hammer's German Grammar I would have learnt all there is to know very naive. But it definitely gave me a very significant edge in my education, which became noticeable at uni whilst my fellow classmates were still trying to battle with certain aspects of grammar.
Now I'm rather indifferent to it. I like to really figure out for myself why something is the way it is, or just accept that it is. I only really try and actively learn grammar if something is beyond my grasp.
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Re: Grammar fascination
luke wrote:Curious if you've ever gotten intimate with grammar.
Just some flirting right now.
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Re: Grammar fascination
I said "grew on me," although it's almost a trick question since I was never exposed to much grammar in school. My first real encounter with it came in early adulthood with Spanish. At that point I liked it all right, but it's hard for me to say if I would have liked it if I'd been exposed to it earlier.
Although I enjoyed studying Spanish grammar, I remember taking a look at Latin sometime after that and being initially turned off by the grammar. I got a copy of Wheelock from the library and cracked it open. I had no idea what cases were at that point and when I saw the first declension I thought to myself how outrageous it was for a language to have endings for the nouns! I shut the book and never looked at it again. I don't think it was the grammar per se, more just that I was hoping Latin would be relatively easy since it's related to Spanish and I was very disappointed when I realized that learning it would require a significant effort. I didn't want to learn Latin that bad (at that point at least; someday I hope to return to it).
One difference is that my attitude toward grammar used to be strictly instrumental in the sense that I saw it as something to help you speak correctly and avoid errors. In contrast, now I do have some interest in grammar for its own sake. For instance, I might take a look at Ancient Greek or Russian of Japanese grammar (languages I won't be learning to speak anytime soon) just out of curiosity which isn't something I would have done a few years ago.
Although I enjoyed studying Spanish grammar, I remember taking a look at Latin sometime after that and being initially turned off by the grammar. I got a copy of Wheelock from the library and cracked it open. I had no idea what cases were at that point and when I saw the first declension I thought to myself how outrageous it was for a language to have endings for the nouns! I shut the book and never looked at it again. I don't think it was the grammar per se, more just that I was hoping Latin would be relatively easy since it's related to Spanish and I was very disappointed when I realized that learning it would require a significant effort. I didn't want to learn Latin that bad (at that point at least; someday I hope to return to it).
One difference is that my attitude toward grammar used to be strictly instrumental in the sense that I saw it as something to help you speak correctly and avoid errors. In contrast, now I do have some interest in grammar for its own sake. For instance, I might take a look at Ancient Greek or Russian of Japanese grammar (languages I won't be learning to speak anytime soon) just out of curiosity which isn't something I would have done a few years ago.
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Re: Grammar fascination
It's complicated.
On the one hand, learning grammar via grammar books explanations doesn't really work for me(as promised). On the other hand, I don't understand why spotting grammar patterns without them being poined out to you is seen as something extremely difficult to do.
I won't say I don't like grammar or I hate grammar, this is simply not true. I think that grammar is part of a language, and if I like the language I like its grammar. What I doesn't like though is the way grammar is taught. That instruction-like way the grammar rules are presented in textbooks. ('If you put A after B you'll get C. What if I use F instead? It is not correct. Why? Becuase it is what the rule says. What if I put A before B? It is not correct. Why? Becuase it is what the rule says.Shut up and do what are you told!'.) To understand a rule I need to see how changing some elements, the order of words in a sentence, etc. will or will not affect the meaning. Drilling the same grammar construction again and again won't help.
On the one hand, learning grammar via grammar books explanations doesn't really work for me
I won't say I don't like grammar or I hate grammar, this is simply not true. I think that grammar is part of a language, and if I like the language I like its grammar. What I doesn't like though is the way grammar is taught. That instruction-like way the grammar rules are presented in textbooks. ('If you put A after B you'll get C. What if I use F instead? It is not correct. Why? Becuase it is what the rule says. What if I put A before B? It is not correct. Why? Becuase it is what the rule says.
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Re: Grammar fascination
I voted 'It grew on me'.
The way I see it you always have to learn grammar, it's only a matter of how you do it. What grew on me is going through a book that explicitly goes through teaching grammar point. I think I'm getting better timing when I look at grammars. I feel much better about if I have seen/heard the grammar point multiple times then read about it in a book. I feel best about it if I actively have a question and search out a particular point.
The way I see it you always have to learn grammar, it's only a matter of how you do it. What grew on me is going through a book that explicitly goes through teaching grammar point. I think I'm getting better timing when I look at grammars. I feel much better about if I have seen/heard the grammar point multiple times then read about it in a book. I feel best about it if I actively have a question and search out a particular point.
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- Sonjaconjota
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Re: Grammar fascination
I really like grammar and spend a lot of time studying it actively, but I would not call it a love affair.
I recently started to read The Word Brain by Bernd Sebastian Kamps, which somebody had recommended here in the forum.
I didn't get very far, because I'm pressed for time right now, but something struck me as odd.
At the very beginning of the book, the author says this: "Learning words is the hardcore task of language learning; in comparison, learning grammar is a finger exercise for pre-school children."
And I can't find it right now, but I think he did a similar comparison with listening comprehension (huge task) and grammar (not that much of a deal).
And that's just not my perception at all. For me, grammar is the huge task that never ends.
Sometimes I see it in front of me like a big piece of rock that's blocking my way and that I'm picking away at without much hope of ever completely removing this obstacle.
I was thinking about this, and I have to say that I have the same impression with, for example, French, that I theoretically started to learn about thirty years ago, and Turkish, my most recent language that I started just two years ago.
I recently started to read The Word Brain by Bernd Sebastian Kamps, which somebody had recommended here in the forum.
I didn't get very far, because I'm pressed for time right now, but something struck me as odd.
At the very beginning of the book, the author says this: "Learning words is the hardcore task of language learning; in comparison, learning grammar is a finger exercise for pre-school children."
And I can't find it right now, but I think he did a similar comparison with listening comprehension (huge task) and grammar (not that much of a deal).
And that's just not my perception at all. For me, grammar is the huge task that never ends.
Sometimes I see it in front of me like a big piece of rock that's blocking my way and that I'm picking away at without much hope of ever completely removing this obstacle.
I was thinking about this, and I have to say that I have the same impression with, for example, French, that I theoretically started to learn about thirty years ago, and Turkish, my most recent language that I started just two years ago.
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Re: Grammar fascination
I'm a total grammar nut. Some people do Sudoku, catch me doing my Icelandic grammar drills book to relax
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- cito
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Re: Grammar fascination
tacerto1018 wrote:I'm a total grammar nut. Some people do Sudoku, catch me doing my Icelandic grammar drills book to relax
Very productive relaxation!! I'm jealous. I just watch langfocus videos and end up not watching TL videos.
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