Very closely related L2 + language learning veteran: What can you "skip" for maximum efficiency?

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Very closely related L2 + language learning veteran: What can you "skip" for maximum efficiency?

Postby outcast » Mon May 17, 2021 10:03 am

I am brainstorming and would welcome some input from the community.

Spanish is one of my native languages (if learning it since age 4 and living life and doing a big chunk of elementary school in a Spanish-speaking country qualifies). From there, I took Italian lessons for a year when I was 11 or so, and still I actually remember some of the main points. I've learned French since high school (2 'serious' years of study for a high school type class), then retook it as self-study 10 years later that and learned it to a high B2 in speaking, C1+ in passive skills. Learned Portuguese to low B2 in an intense burst of 8 months or so. As a result, I've delved deeply into romance languages, so I'm well-versed in the features of these languages.

Then, as everyone else in here, I have a decent experience in this language learning thing.

I may have a chance to be in Italy for 2 or 3 months for a project at some point this year. This project is not any sort of life-consuming matter in reality, so I will be lucky enough to have decent free time on a daily basis. I think you now know where I am going with this?

Italian is a language I always have vowed to reclaim, not only because I did learn it to some type of speaking level when I was a boy, but because my mother paid for those classes during a time she could have saved that money for other things. I feel a moral obligation to restore it and beyond. I have had this goal for years, but been busy with other priorities. Given all of the above, I don't doubt I can learn Italian to whatever level I wish, if I put the time and effort. Yet, given my linguistic background, I probably don't have to approach (re)learning Italian the way I have studied Chinese and Korean, that is to say, from scratch and with a very methodical step by step approach. I think I have sort of forgotten how to best learn a closely related language, or perhaps better said, I don't have much experience here (since I learned French as my first self-taught L2 and didn't have a clue, Portuguese is a bit of experience but I didn't really change much in my approach).I don't want to waste time doing things I perhaps don't need to do.

I hate suggesting I can take short-cuts here, I don't believe in that even with all the supposed advantages I have pointed out above, because a 2nd language is still a 2nd language. But surely I can and maybe should do things more boldly and diving heads-on, no?

If you were me, how would you proceed if you were in Italy, with whole afternoons and evenings "mainly" to yourself? Should I immediately dive into native content from day one? If yes, should I put more time on listening or on reading? Should I talk from the get-go or wait (again, I will only have 2-3 months). Studying much Italian before actually arriving is not a real possibility though, for various reasons. I know it would be best to do all the passive stuff as much as possible before, and then take advantage of the speaking environment, but I won't have much of that prior practice. I actually feel more lost in this scenario than in Studying Chinese, Korean, or Hindi, where I have my own ways. French and German I did similar to Chinese, as they were my first self-studied foreign languages therefore I didn't really know what I was doing for a while.

I would like to take full advantage of this opportunity if it materializes. Anyways... thoughts? (I hope so!, and thanks in advance) :ugeek:
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Re: Very closely related L2 + language learning veteran: What can you "skip" for maximum efficiency?

Postby dampingwire » Mon May 17, 2021 11:19 am

I suppose I'd be in the same posiiton with Spanish, except I have no experience at all with Spansih but you have had some kind of learning experience with Italian.

You say you don't have any time for study before you go, but do you have time to test your existing skills?

For listening perhaps Podcast Italiano: https://www.youtube.com/c/PodcastItaliano/videos.

For reading perhaps a newspaper: https://www.lastampa.it/.

I guess, given your Spanish base, perhaps a quick glance at False Friends might be a good idea, for example: https://www.grammaticaspagnola.it/error ... -spagnolo/.

Other than that I guess you should just dive straight in. Your previous Italian experience (assuming some of it comes back) and your Spanish base mean you should need far less reviewing for things to stick and fall into place.
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Re: Very closely related L2 + language learning veteran: What can you "skip" for maximum efficiency?

Postby 白田龍 » Mon May 17, 2021 11:31 am

I'm a native Portuguese speaker, and I have got a very decent Spanish from listening alone. I did study some grammar and read a bit, but it was very small amount insuficient to grant any meaningful progress. I have listened to RTVE podcasts almost daily for perhaps 2-3 years, and when I got the chance to use it, it became active easily and I was able to speak idiomatic Spanish (for French, though, that is a little farther away from my native language, the results were considerably worse).

So I guess one can skip everything and jump into mass listening to native content.
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Re: Very closely related L2 + language learning veteran: What can you "skip" for maximum efficiency?

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Mon May 17, 2021 2:54 pm

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outcast
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Re: Very closely related L2 + language learning veteran: What can you "skip" for maximum efficiency?

Postby outcast » Mon May 17, 2021 3:20 pm



Ah, look at that. Well, that thread sort of confirms what my observations have been. In the community there have been so many issues that have been discussed and debated, and ideas exchanged. But this one is one of the most obscure or least discussed issues. I have not seen any of the big Youtube Polyglots do videos on it, I've not seen much literature on this on bookshelves, I don't recall any videos online by actual language researchers, or videos from polyglot conferences either.

It would be safe to say that there is very little theoretical science or empirical observation data about how the brain acquires a closely related language vs a distant one, and how learning techniques could be tweaked as a result.

Right now, I am leaning towards first doing just listening while doing some pronunciation drills (as with any other language I've studied, it's best to get the pronunciation right the first time), and reading some scripted textbook dialogues out loud...and after a couple of weeks, start to read in large quantities when a certain good pronunciation is imprinted and I can "hear" it when reading.
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Re: Very closely related L2 + language learning veteran: What can you "skip" for maximum efficiency?

Postby Sonjaconjota » Mon May 17, 2021 4:15 pm

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Re: Very closely related L2 + language learning veteran: What can you "skip" for maximum efficiency?

Postby IronMike » Tue May 18, 2021 1:07 am


and this from 5 years ago:
IronMike wrote:How did I never see this post? Thanks for mentioning it in another thread, Jeff.

I point folks to this thread I started years ago of my experiences in DLI's old Turbo-Serbo course. (That's the students' name for it. DLI called it the Serbian/Croatian Slavic Conversion Course.)
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