How do you learn a new language from scratch?

General discussion about learning languages
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mentecuerpo
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How do you learn a new language from scratch?

Postby mentecuerpo » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:37 pm

Many language learners learn languages in many different ways.

How do you learn your new language from scratch?

It is not about youtube polyglots in general; I am more interested in this forum users, including polyglots.

I know Steve LingQ likes to start with a beginner's book like teach Yourself or Assimil; for example, then he quickly moves to the short stories in LingQ. Here is what he has to say on the topic:

https://youtu.be/mXqFD2bWHxU and: https://youtu.be/8gyhAY8TsLY

Vladimir Skultety likes to start his new language with the goal to converse in the language. He divides languages into difficult or easy language, and his method changes depending on the language's complexity. His goal is to start speaking as fast as he can and understand as much of the language necessary for speaking. He likes detective stories and bloggers on youtube. He wants to decipher how the language works instead of reading a grammar book. Here it is: https://youtu.be/l0aGvTQp9FY

So, How do you learn your new language from scratch?
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Re: How do you learn a new language from scratch?

Postby mentecuerpo » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:59 pm

In the topic, Speakeasy wrote the following on October 2019:

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 17&t=11335

Speakeasy wrote:Welcome!
First, a belated welcome to the forum! Second, as I would imagine you have already discovered, there are simply too many self-instructional language programmes available for the study of the popular FIGS languages (French, Italian, German, Spanish) to choose from. In a broad sense, almost anything you choose from a reputable publisher should take you into the CEFR A2-B1 range in the spoken language (although there would likely be some small gaps in vocabulary). So then, here are a few thoughts to consider concerning your question:


On the above post, Speakeasy also describes a few well-known language courses: Assimil, Pimsleur, and the Drill-and-Kill method, and he provides some general advice.
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Re: How do you learn a new language from scratch?

Postby Iversen » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:56 pm

My latest new projects are all related to something I have studied earlier, but below I imagine that I would start a new language with another writing system - say, something like Georgian or some Oriental language. Even if I do know something related then I will still start from ground zero - I did this even with Swedish, which I already could understand - but the phases would be shorter, and it will be easier to mix them.

Necessary tools from day one: a good grammar and a good two-way dictionary (or one in each direction). I do not need a text book, except maybe as a source for extremely simple texts (in the beginning only). But maybe a small language guide (Assimil, Kauderwelsch) to get acquainted with the new language in general terms - and maybe also with its history.

Even before starting to study the new language as a language I would try to learn the writing system by heart - best done by transcribing something. I may need to hear its sounds spoken in isolation at this stage, but so far without any attempt to understand anything.

Also necessary: a reliable source for bilingual texts, either in the form of parallel books or articles or access to a machine translator. I did long ago translate a guidebook to Rhodes from Greek without a translation at hand, and it did function, but the process is far too time consuming.

Then I need somewhere where I can hear somebody read a text aloud while I follow the text. And if that can't be found then maybe a voice synthethizer or video where I can hear single sounds spoken, including minimal pairs - but so far I wouldn't get much from hearing longer utterances. Later on I also want to listen to those, but in the beginning I just need to get my internal voice calibrated.

And then a lot of time spent on text studies - depending on the language, but definitely more than 7 days - until I can start to read for pleasure. In the beginning I'll do bilingual text copies and make wordlists based on the words I find there, later the wordlists will more and more be based directly on a dictionary, and I'll start to spend more and more time on extensive text activities.

It this point I would also try to start to think in the new language. And at the same time I start to listen to native speech, in the beginning more for learning to parse the words and sentences, but soon also in the hope to understand something. At the end I might try to provoke an epiphany experience, i.e. a sudden phase shift where the stream of sounds suddenly becomes comprehensible.

And finally a trip to a suitable country to get submerged into the new language. My head should be buzzing in order to make it produce sentences by itself instead of me telling it to construct each sentence. The only alternate would be a heavy internet listening campaign, and that's not nearly as pleasant - I like to travel.
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Re: How do you learn a new language from scratch?

Postby TeoLanguages » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:41 pm

Personally I always use Assimil because I need comprehensible input. Its bilingual dialogues are a gold mine for me, not to the mention the audio tracks and the grammar notes.
I deem it extremely effective.
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Re: How do you learn a new language from scratch?

Postby 白田龍 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:58 pm

My basic initial plan (not what I actually end up doing) is thus:

Work simultaneously through some self learn courses like assimil, routlege...
Use image flashcards to learn the names of things
Use sentence flashcards to learn all other vocabulary
Lots of watching tv and listening to native materials from day 1
In due time start reading short texts, like stories for children, and progress to narrow reading novels that seem easy
Gradually expand my reading, successively narrow reading diferent genra
Start practicing speaking after passive fluency has been achieved (optional)
Last edited by 白田龍 on Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How do you learn a new language from scratch?

Postby Deinonysus » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:11 pm

When available I like to use the trio of Duolingo, Pimsleur, and Assimil to make sure I train all four skills. Duolingo is great for writing, Pimsleur is great for speaking, and Assimil is great for reading and listening. For rarer languages, I scrape together as much coverage as I can for the four skills.

I also like to get my hands on some children's books, skim the headlines on news sites, and watch news stories and YouTube videos once my level is high enough. I try to stick to texts where I can figure out most unknown words from context, and I generally don't use subtitles for videos.
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Re: How do you learn a new language from scratch?

Postby lusan » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:04 pm

白田龍 wrote:My basic initial plan (not what I actually end up doing) is thus:

Work simultaneously through some self learn courses like assimil, routlege...
Use image flashcards to learn the names of things
Use sentence flashcards to learn all other vocabulary
Lots of watching tv and listening to native materials from day 1
In due time start reading short texts, like stories for children, and progress to narrow reading novels that seem easy
Gradually expand my reading, successively narrow reading diferent genra
Start practicing speaking after passive fluency has been achieved (optional)


Wao....! Totally agree.
I would do exactly as you described. It worked for French and now it seems to be working very well for Italian. It works,... no doubt.
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Re: How do you learn a new language from scratch?

Postby Le Baron » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:22 pm

I don't have any fancy methods. Some experienced language learners eschew text books as a starter, but I quite like them because they point you in the right direction and save you from common pitfalls. If I feel confident I skip quite quickly, then start on a listening schedule (audio/video). I quite like things that get you talking as well so I've used Pimsleur (e.g. for German on an old Walkman).

I have to say that I don't study grammar intensively, especially at the beginning. Just enough to get a basic working knowledge and often you can get that in a simple course. After that I only use a grammar to fix problems and choose the slimmest grammar I can find like those Dover edition 'essential grammars'. After this I just plug away then assess myself after about every two months, moving onto more difficult material when I feel it's right. I also seek out a native speaker; at the beginning for asking questions about things, then for speaking attempts.

I'm not that interested in taking an academic approach and becoming a connoisseur in a target language, not at the outset anyway. I just want to talk to people and follow media. At the start I go for quite a lot of what might be thought 'junk media' because it's often simpler and contains a lot of current usage.

The thing is I don't really have a solid 'method' in every language I've tried because of the differences in materials available - though this gap has closed more now with the major publishers covering more languages. Years ago when I was studying Russian through reading (I don't list some languages because I feel they've badly lapsed and I can't claim to know them) I only had the Teach Yourself Russian Through Reading book and a few other bits and pieces like a small vocab book and grammar outline. All the books I tackled came from the library's foreign language collection or second-hand shops.
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Re: How do you learn a new language from scratch?

Postby IronMike » Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:30 am

I follow iguanamon's Multi-track Approach. I love that method of all the ones I've tried.
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Re: How do you learn a new language from scratch?

Postby mentecuerpo » Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:57 am

Deinonysus wrote:When available I like to use the trio of Duolingo, Pimsleur, and Assimil to make sure I train all four skills. Duolingo is great for writing, Pimsleur is great for speaking, and Assimil is great for reading and listening. For rarer languages, I scrape together as much coverage as I can for the four skills.

I also like to get my hands on some children's books, skim the headlines on news sites, and watch news stories and YouTube videos once my level is high enough. I try to stick to texts where I can figure out most unknown words from context, and I generally don't use subtitles for videos.


Thank you for your contribution, Deinonysus.

Do you find that you can learn new words with Duolingo besides the written practice?

Lately, I have been thinking of doing Duolingo in combination with listening to natural language content as much as I can during my day.

Of course, I will not understand the new language sounds with extensive listening, but Duolingo will help me decode the sounds as I slowly learn new words with the app.
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