risbolle wrote:To restate my main point: there were multiple instances of ad hominem and other low grade methods of criticism thrown around, something which I think has devalued the discussion (would devalue any discussion). This is entirely from a reasoned argument point of view, and has nothing to do with sensitivities - this is key.
All right, without mentioning specific names. There are lots of myths re language learning. The chief about them is, of course, that you can learn the language in ‘no time’.
No, first time learners, you cannot achieve fluency in 1 week, 3 months, or even a year. How much time does it take? It’s hard to tell since every situation is unique. But I tend to refer people to FSI numbers while emphasizing that in this case 1) we have highly motivated people who learn a language as a full time job 2) small classes with experienced tutors 3) homework hours are not included (so add these hours) and 4) I think someone mentioned on this forum that quite often than not people fail their exams and need more hours of instruction (correct me if I’m wrong here).
As I an inexperienced self-learner who doesn’t enjoy all the privileges of FSI you can easily multiply FSI numbers (+homework!) at least by 2, if not by 3.
Sure, you might not need C1/C2 level in all skills, so you can cut some corners here and there. If people treat language learning as a hobby, I recommend to concentrate on passive skills, reading first. Still, it’s a lot of work. Again, there are debates on the number of words you need to know. I think Nations 10k world families is underestimation (a huge one). I think 20k words is a good benchmark. No way you can get it in 1 year, let alone 3 months or 1 week. (This, of course, doesn’t mean that you cannot enjoy reading until you hit this point, or that you even need that much if your target is reading specific texts. But remember, we are talking about general fluency here.)
Then, again there are 10 lessons from FSI which are a must for all language learners and a nice counterbalance to sensationalist claims. The most important part is that lower-intermediate learners tend to overestimate their skills (yes, I’m pointing at you, youtubers) and that speaking in the real life setting is the hardest skill to master (not because of speaking skills but because of
listening). All this research effectively ruins any claims to achieve fluency in no time, unless you deflate the notion of fluency to the level of being an advanced tourist.
We can discuss further other myths and tricks like, for instance, what actually hides behind seemingly innocuous phrases like “I know 10+ languages”, what kind of video tricks are used to produce an illusion of fluency how it is ‘actually’ ‘possible’ to ‘learn’ 2, 3 or a dozen of languages at a time. But usually, busting the myth of ‘becoming fluent in no time’ is enough.
