einzelne wrote:Cavesa wrote:People shouldn't be encouraged to dumb themselves down. ... You're basically advocating for learning only one foreign language ... The "English is the only thing that matters" propaganda is showing some cracks
I think you read too much into my suggestions. I don't encourage people to dumb themselves down, far from it. I'm just trying to be realistic. If there are two languages fighting in your head, the most reasonable strategy is to keep one active, while developing passive skills in the other or others (but limiting yourself to passive skills doesn't mean to jettison other languages completely)
But they aren't likely to fight, it is usually just a temporary thing. And it might just mean you should put more care and efforts into one of them. Just keeping one of them is not the most reasonable strategy. If you give up, you will not achieve more than one active language (which can make you miss out on many opportunities). The most reasonable strategy is to evaluate your needs (both immediate and possible in the foreseeable future) and making a decision. If two languages are "fighting" in your head, the decision to just improve at both (which will separate them) is just as valid. But yes, your point with keeping some languages passive at least solves the issue of freedom of information.
And of course I don't believe that "English is..." mantra otherwise I wouldn't bother with other languages. Personally, I would rather live in the times of Latin, French, or German as lingua franca:) I firmly believe though that knowledge of foreign languages has nothing to do with intellect. You don't magically become smarter if you speak two (3,4 etc) foreign languages instead of one.
Oh, I never suggested that knowing several languages would make you automatically smarter. It just gives you access to much more information, and to more points of view. Which you can use to inform yourself better. (But no, it is absolutely wrong that knowledge of foreign languages "has nothing to do with intellect". People with IQ 130 are simply likely to have a bit easier time learning than people IQ 100. But both can certainly succeed, and the person with lower IQ may make some smarter choices and become more successful in the end.)
Cavesa wrote:But isn't it actually beautiful, that your colleagues' English could deteriorate?
Beautiful? Imagine yourself working in a transnational company, when it's part of you job to make powerful presentations and participate in negotiations in English etc. and then suddenly your own language betrays you: you're no longer that eloquent, your speech is less idiomatic — not because you haven't reach the advanced level yet but because
you had it and then suddenly lost it, right at the moment when you started to feel confident in Dutch. What's beautiful about it?
But if someone works in such a company and their English deteriorates nonetheless, it's probably their own choice. They've clearly neglected something, if they are worse at the language in spite of every day use of it.
What is beautiful about it: we need to finally move on from the transnational=English logic. I don't like the English monopoly erasing the other big languages, and often creating a totally artificial environment. Usually, people with various native languages speak one that is native to none of them (so the overall level is a broken B2ish English usually), that simply affects the quality, and it damages the culture of our world. The fact that your colleagues were able to achieve a high level in Dutch in spite of working in such an environment, that's actually very beautiful and surprising. It's usually the opposite, with people from such companies sticking to English and expecting their host country to cater to them.
And yes, I understand their disappointment completely, even though I don't share it. I achieved C1 years ago (and I had suffered for it most probably much more than them.). And just like them, I've found my English deteriorating lately, when I was handling a crisis much better in French. So, I 100% understand their point, but I also find it nice. It proves that I was right, and all those "you should just learn English" idiots and bullies were wrong, I need other languages more than English, and it is also possible to be better at those other languages.
The recent dysbalance is caused purely by my neglect of English, not by my French. My Spanish is improving (around B2, passively C1) and it is not affecting my French. So, I don't really think there is any "fight". There is only a skill people neglect in some way. Perhaps your friends stopped doing anything extra in their free time? Perhaps they just like to complain, instead of admitting their own mistakes?