Random interesting things I found in the English language

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Re: Random interesting things I found in the English language

Postby DaveAgain » Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:36 pm

Amandine wrote:I’ve never heard or heard of “fain”. In context I presume I could guess its meaning but on its own I couldn’t.
Try! :-)

The yard was so dark that even Scrooge, who knew its every stone, was fain to grope with his hands.

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/46
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Re: Random interesting things I found in the English language

Postby tungemål » Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:45 pm

That was the text.
It's hard not to read it as "fine". It can also mean compelled, which seems to be the meaning here.
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Re: Random interesting things I found in the English language

Postby Amandine » Thu Dec 29, 2022 2:33 am

I stand corrected, I wouldn’t know it’s meaning from context :P
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Re: Random interesting things I found in the English language

Postby mick33 » Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:25 pm

tungemål wrote:Fain

Reading Dickens I encountered some new (for me) words. Like fain.

It's an old germanic word meaning happy, glad. It exists in Norwegian and Swedish as obsolete words, allthough I don't think I've ever heard it.

NO: fegjen
SW: fägen

Is "fain" still used in English or is it now only found in old literature?
I knew it existed but I had thought that fain was only used in old literature, and I didn't know Dickens used it. However, just out of curiosity I found it in Merriam-Webster's Dictionary and it looks like people still occasionally use it in writing.
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Re: Random interesting things I found in the English language

Postby Querneus » Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:11 pm

tungemål wrote:Fain

Reading Dickens I encountered some new (for me) words. Like fain.

It's an old germanic word meaning happy, glad. It exists in Norwegian and Swedish as obsolete words, allthough I don't think I've ever heard it.

NO: fegjen
SW: fägen

Is "fain" still used in English or is it now only found in old literature?

I'd say it's very obsolete. The kind of archaism someone would use mostly to annoy others. :)

Someone once pointed out this word to me after I mentioned I was surprised by the way in which German uses the adverb gern (which means the same thing as the adverb "fain": to like doing something, to do something gladly), mentioning the similar English adverb "lief" (which expresses preference in the construction "I would as lief do sth as do sth else". Then he added (note: RPing = roleplaying):

"However, while I'd personally use these words fain on a daily basis, anyone else not actively RPing or attempting to write like ye olde Englishe folke would apparently as lief say "fain" as sever their lower fingers"...
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Re: Random interesting things I found in the English language

Postby Le Baron » Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:31 pm

Querneus wrote:I'd say it's very obsolete. The kind of archaism someone would use mostly to annoy others. :)

Someone once pointed out this word to me after I mentioned I was surprised by the way in which German uses the adverb gern (which means the same thing as the adverb "fain": to like doing something, to do something gladly), mentioning the similar English adverb "lief" (which expresses preference in the construction "I would as lief do sth as do sth else". Then he added (note: RPing = roleplaying):

"However, while I'd personally use these words fain on a daily basis, anyone else not actively RPing or attempting to write like ye olde Englishe folke would apparently as lief say "fain" as sever their lower fingers"...


That's really interesting. I'd never made the connection between fain and gerne. Lief I knew and it of course is cognate with lief in Dutch (and liever/lieber as 'rather, sooner').

Querneus wrote:I'd say it's very obsolete. The kind of archaism someone would use mostly to annoy others. :)

Perfect reason for reviving it...as your emoticon suggests! :lol:
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Re: Random interesting things I found in the English language

Postby tungemål » Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:02 pm

Another word with an interesting etymology that I found from Dickens was

penthouse.

I bet you didn't know this. When Scrooge and the ghost visit the slums they enter a shop "below a pent-house roof". Hm, a penthouse in a slum? A penthouse apartment is today normally a luxury apartment, as in "one of the bathrooms in my Manhatten penthouse needs renovating, but I can't decide on the tiles".

It turns out that a penthouse was originally an attached building with a sloped roof. The Old French word "Apentis" (cf appendage) was used, and became penthouse. Later it was believed that the etymology was actually pente-house from French pente (sloped). Somehow the sloped roof must have carried over to a rooftop apartment.
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