Cainntear wrote:eido wrote:Cainntear wrote:But the numbers are so overwhelming that they're taking over every online space now. Getting out of the way of all DL learners means getting out of the way of all learners.
I guess you can resign yourself to the role of perennial teacher, or just hide on LLORG.
I choose to hide
I'm on those groups to be a teacher. I stick around to give other people the help I got from web forums on my way up. However, I don't want to spend my entire life explaining the concept of noun gender every second day. It's not a productive use of my time, and the basic chat floods out the questions for improvers and intermediate learners that aren't already covered in every single course except Duolingo (which actually does include them in "tips" that no-one is ever pushed towards reading)..
Thanks Cainntear. As you note, Duolingo does include grammar notes, though I think that may just be for the web-based version rather than the app version. The notes are hardly obscured - there are only two buttons for the introduction to each new skill unit, and TIPS is the first button (with START being the second).
As you will know, there is a world of difference between the app version (which has a lot of unhelpful stuff such as the hearts system) and the web version of Duolingo. I only use the latter, and I understand that Tips are not or may not be available on the app version. The web version has notes or "Tips" covering in a brief (not comprehensive) fashion relevant grammar, vocabulary and for some courses cultural points), and the discussion forum relating to each exercise often includes quite a lot of discussion - the sort of discussion that is helpful to an individual learner trying to figure out why a particular case is being used, for example, or questions relating to alternate vocab items, etc.
By way of contrast, Memrise (another tool I love) has (as far as I am aware) zero grammar notes or tips, zero commentary, and does not take one to a high level. Pimsleur also does not do much in the way of grammar notes. But neither Memrise nor Pimsleur attracts the same sort of vitriol as Duolingo.
TL:DR the web-version is miles better than the app version (and the typing approach is kilometres ahead of the word choice guessing game approach). I guess one can blame Duolingo itself for lazy users who fail to take the time to read the grammar notes if one likes and if that strikes one as fair (but it does not strike me that way).