Scots Gaelic Could Die in a Decade

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galaxyrocker
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Re: Scots Gaelic Could Die in a Decade

Postby galaxyrocker » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:29 pm

devilyoudont wrote:Sometimes revival efforts result in a new language which is not even a dialect of the traditional language. This appears to be the case in Hawaiian for example, where language learners both outnumber native speakers, and generally have limited interaction with native speakers while learning... The result of this is that proficient speakers of Neo-Hawaiian and traditional Hawaiian may hit mutual intelligibility issues when communicating. This is a problem which may have a solution so long as native speakers still exist, but in the case of a completely dead language (such as Cornish), my guess would be that it is completely impossible to know if you have revived a language or created a new one.

For me, I have a reluctance to get into these languages because I feel that it would be disrespectful for me to dabble in something like this and not be very serious about it, but I also know that I personally could not be very serious about studying a language unless I had some connections to a community which uses it.



This is a huge issue with Irish as well, with, sadly, the most vocal people (even academic linguists) siding against the natives and with the "new speakers". It's quite a shame. It's also really funny, as the "new speakers" decry English loan words, but have no problems using English sounds and grammatical structures; it's the exact opposite among natives, however. It's really a sad situation, as someone focused on a specific (sub)dialect of native Irish.
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Re: Scots Gaelic Could Die in a Decade

Postby devilyoudont » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:35 pm

I would be very interested to read more about both sides of that issue regarding Irish, if you have any helpful links. I tried googling, but I don't think I know enough about it to use the right search terms.
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Re: Scots Gaelic Could Die in a Decade

Postby Xenops » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:28 pm

devilyoudont wrote:I would be very interested to read more about both sides of that issue regarding Irish, if you have any helpful links. I tried googling, but I don't think I know enough about it to use the right search terms.


A related video I just watched about Irish education:

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Re: Scots Gaelic Could Die in a Decade

Postby Kraut » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:52 pm

There's a BBC channel in Scottish Gaelic BBC ALBA, I'm receiving it at this very moment: audio is Gaelic, subtitles English.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/schedules/p00fzl67

If you want to watch it, here is the UK footprint (yellow line), which reaches as far as the south of Germany
https://satfi.co.uk/coverage/
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galaxyrocker
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Re: Scots Gaelic Could Die in a Decade

Postby galaxyrocker » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:02 pm

devilyoudont wrote:I would be very interested to read more about both sides of that issue regarding Irish, if you have any helpful links. I tried googling, but I don't think I know enough about it to use the right search terms.


Most my sources are really on one side of the issue (trying to convince people it is an issue!), but googling "new speakers" and "Irish" should give you some sense on the other side. Dr. John Walsh, at NUIG, is a professor who deals with it a lot (nice enough person, but I don't agree with his ideas lol).

Some articles on the other side though:

Schism Fears for Gaeilgeoirí, Late Modern Irish and the Dynamics of Language Change and Language Death and several articles/books collected Irish Language Forum.

There's also a TED talk about it here:

----------

Back to Scottish Gaelic though. I know a native speaker from the Western Isles, and he will whole-heartedly agree with this. He blames a lot of it on modernization, and that a lot of English-speaking people are buying holiday homes and moving in, thus driving the Gaelic speakers to use more and more English. He actually is quite active in wanting to protect the language, but he feels he's fighting a losing battle.
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Re: Scots Gaelic Could Die in a Decade

Postby rdearman » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:20 pm

devilyoudont wrote:but in the case of a completely dead language (such as Cornish),

Although declared extinct by the UN, in fact there are 300-500 speakers of Cornish in the UK and it isn't a dead language. UNESCO recently reclassified the language from "extinct" to "critically endangered".
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Re: Scots Gaelic Could Die in a Decade

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:27 pm

Kraut wrote:There's a BBC channel in Scottish Gaelic BBC ALBA, I'm receiving it at this very moment: audio is Gaelic, subtitles English.


Is the snapshot from the cookery show Fuine? Another gaeilgeoir in my area recommends it. I have only seen one episode.

(Some Youtube samples here.)
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Re: Scots Gaelic Could Die in a Decade

Postby Kraut » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:21 am

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Re: Scots Gaelic Could Die in a Decade

Postby Saim » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:35 am

rdearman wrote:
devilyoudont wrote:but in the case of a completely dead language (such as Cornish),

Although declared extinct by the UN, in fact there are 300-500 speakers of Cornish in the UK and it isn't a dead language. UNESCO recently reclassified the language from "extinct" to "critically endangered".


Ahom, Coptic and Cuban Yoruba probably have more proficient users than that, and I don’t think anyone would dispute their extinct status. Being extinct isn’t defined by whether you have non-native proficient speakers. In that case language death would be pretty much impossible as long as you have a core of language activists that keep learning it from books, regardless of how much they actually use it in their daily lives.
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Re: Scots Gaelic Could Die in a Decade

Postby rdearman » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:13 am

I don't know what the definition used was. I am only pointing out that UNESCO doesn't consider it extinct. One assumes people at UNESCO know what they are doing.
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