Can’t get past A1 (long-standing problem)

[SaltySalt]

Throughout my life (ever since I was 8 or 9 years old) I have been passionate about the possibility of learning another language. I wanted so badly to live abroad, integrate with the locals, discover new cultures – everything from local routines to literature, music, film and food. However, even when I did finally move abroad (twice now), I failed to learn the local language and found myself stuck in expat circles.

I don’t know what my problem is. Language learning has been a quest of mine since early school years. That’s about 25 years of failed attempts. I tried German, French (multiple times), Spanish (multiple times), Italian, Swedish, and even Japanese (multiple times). Nothing stuck. Even living abroad didn’t help.

As for approaches, I tried everything FROM: obligatory classes (K-12), elective university courses, and adult courses, TO: various forms of self-study (Pims, Paul Noble, Assimil, TYS, Hugo, Rosetta Stone, Duolingo, Schaum's, Podcasts, Anki + various language-specific resources). I also read everything from Kató Lomb to All Japanese All The Time (AJATT). I took notes on videos by Alexander Arguelles and stalked these forums (previously HTLAL) for years. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

With each attempt I get somewhere around shaky A1, which subsequently deteriorates back to “near zero.”

I can’t figure out WHY this keeps happening. It’s not for the lack of trying. I’ll list some of my own theories and observations below. Any advice or suggestions would be very welcome.

The summer is approaching, and I would like to try once again in June 2020. But I clearly need to make some drastic changes, or the results will be the same as before.

[SaltySalt]

My own theories/observations:

1. (THEORY) Burnout. I’m too methodological about how I study. I quickly create complex study “systems” which end up being too overwhelming to maintain with consistency.

2. (THEORY) Desire. I want to speak the language so badly, that when I don’t see fast results I feel like I failed, and begin to feel negative towards the whole endeavor.

3. (THEORY) Perfectionism. I am too focused on 100% “getting” whatever the chapter or section is about. I need to learn all the vocab, internalize the grammar, master the pronunciation. This makes progress very slow (linking to #2). I also tend to lose momentum as soon as my consistency drops, that is the need to maintain "perfect" study routine also trips me up, because as soon as I am no longer perfect or near perfect I lose the drive.

4. (OBSERVATION) Bad memory. I think my memory is below average, I feel I often forget a lot of the information I previously practiced, leadings to feelings of frustration and failure (linking to both #2 and #3)

[Cavesa]

Welcome to the forum!

Looking at your list of used resources, it looks like most of them have been beginner resources. So, if they got you to A1, they actually did their job. You need to use the more advanced courses to get further along the way. The most reliable way is getting a cefr labeled coursebook series and use it as the main structure of your learning. It is less important whether you use it alone or with a tutor, or what do you use to supplement it (the supplemental activities are very important, don't ge me wrong, but it is just so easy to run in circles and stop progressing. it happes to teachers too). As long as you keep going forward in it, you are moving on to the next levels.

The moving abroad didn't work for obvious reasons. You stuck to the expat circles, and you seem to have focused more on being in the country without actually studying. The knowledge of the language doesn't come through some magic in the local air. The in country stay is a wonderful way to practice and learn from that. But I'd say people not learning beforehand and just moving abroad, without planning to study just hard there as they would need to study at home, are wasting their time and money. And are extremely likely to fail (the only exception being the immigrants that get to choose between learning through immersion or starvation. The English natives are unlikely to get to such a situation).

Nothing is wrong with you as a person or learner, your brain is not blocked from learning a language. But when I look at the list of resources, I mostly see stuff that is either not too serious or of dubious quality (like RS or Duo, or classes), or good but only meant to help within the beginner level (Pimsleur), or great but not teaching everything for the levels (Assimil is awesome, but needs to be combined with other stuff in my opinion), and so on. You haven't listed a single coursebook series meant to go from 0 to B2 or C1. It's as if you were taking grade one maths classes, reviewed a bunch of grade 1 maths coursebooks and workbooks, and then were surprised to fail at a maths university entrance exam.

Yes, there are alternative ways and people able to learn a language perfectly without coursebooks. But you and I are clearly not those people. And there is no shame in that.

[golyplot]

I mostly see stuff that is either not too serious or of dubious quality (like RS or Duo, or classes), or good but only meant to help within the beginner level (Pimsleur),

IMO, Duolingo is in the second category, not the first.

[Dragon27]

The main trick in learning something big and complex is putting one foot in front of the other in the general direction of the finish-line. The main way to fail is to give up (or get lost). Learning something like that is more about a psychological battle against your own lack of confidence and motivation than anything else.

I don't get this part in your first post:

With each attempt I get somewhere around shaky A1, which subsequently deteriorates back to “near zero.”

What does it mean? You learn your language to about A1, and then just stop? How do you expect to get anywhere if you do that? Don't stop. Jumping from language to language and method to method doesn't seem to have any effect either (I mean, if it had, there would have to be some visible progress from 25 years of attempts), so there's no point in continuing with that strategy.

Another point you raised (in your now deleted post?) is the desire to have some "perfect" study routine to get better faster. You should just let it go and be satisfied with imperfect. What's the point of having a perfect routine if you can't keep it up? If you just get burned out or demotivated by lack of fast progress and give up? You would be better off if you just stop worrying about it and keep going on. And worrying about bad memory isn't productive either. Everyone complains about their memory when they keep forgetting something. Language learning isn't about memorizing anyway, it's about developing skills.


You might also read this excellent post:
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 39#p151339

[smallwhite]

TYS, Hugo, ... Schaum's, Podcasts, Anki + various language-specific resources

Good stuff. Enough to reach at least B1 in FR, ES, IT, SV and maybe DE as well.

How Much of Your Courses and Textbooks Do You Learn?

[jimmy]

Throughout my life (ever since I was 8 or 9 years old) I have been passionate about the possibility of learning another language. I wanted so badly to live abroad, integrate with the locals, discover new cultures – everything from local routines to literature, music, film and food. However, even when I did finally move abroad (twice now), I failed to learn the local language and found myself stuck in expat circles.

I don’t know what my problem is. Language learning has been a quest of mine since early school years. That’s about 25 years of failed attempts. I tried German, French (multiple times), Spanish (multiple times), Italian, Swedish, and even Japanese (multiple times). Nothing stuck. Even living abroad didn’t help.

As for approaches, I tried everything FROM: obligatory classes (K-12), elective university courses, and adult courses, TO: various forms of self-study (Pims, Paul Noble, Assimil, TYS, Hugo, Rosetta Stone, Duolingo, Schaum's, Podcasts, Anki + various language-specific resources). I also read everything from Kató Lomb to All Japanese All The Time (AJATT). I took notes on videos by Alexander Arguelles and stalked these forums (previously HTLAL) for years. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

With each attempt I get somewhere around shaky A1, which subsequently deteriorates back to “near zero.”

I can’t figure out WHY this keeps happening. It’s not for the lack of trying. I’ll list some of my own theories and observations below. Any advice or suggestions would be very welcome.

The summer is approaching, and I would like to try once again in June 2020. But I clearly need to make some drastic changes, or the results will be the same as before.

here some hekpful tips for you

1) please be aware , there is no free lunch without struggling. you need to know that you will definitely spend some effort.

2) as I realise,you have had option to learn actively, but the life is also taking something from you,then what to do? I shall clearly recommend to WORK for money abroad. and please do not construct void sentences to your employer like "sir, I only aim to practise or master my language level." do not permit anyone to take your time freely.

3)methodology is also effective. but I am sure if you have sufficient time abroad,that will be almost the best method to use.

but use please the mixture methods,too. for instance you will already have option to practise when you are at work. but insufficent. please mix the classic methods too.

we are already not able to say "just learning by heart is a bad thing itself" conversely,it is required.

[sporedandroid]

4. (OBSERVATION) Bad memory. I think my memory is below average, I feel I often forget a lot of the information I previously practiced, leadings to feelings of frustration and failure (linking to both #2 and #3)

I’ve learned to expect this for new languages. When I was first studying Hebrew I had the most awful memory. I would forget what a word meant within a minute. As I progressed my memory improved. Now I can usually learn what words mean with about one try.

[slowmoon]

Even if you were to use a terrible method, you'd still achieve something after 1000 hours of inefficient engagement with a language. I would suggest doing some self-reflection. Ask yourself how much time you've actually spent with each of these languages, how much you really want to communicate with their speakers, what you'd gain by learning them, and how interested you are in their content. In other words, find out if you actually have a strong reason for doing what you think you want to do. If you don't, then give yourself permission to do something else with your valuable time.

[SaltySalt]

Welcome to the forum!

Thank you

Looking at your list of used resources, it looks like most of them have been beginner resources. So, if they got you to A1, they actually did their job.

Need to clarify here. In general I never finish these. I use a mix of resources, but do never finished them, Assimil for example. In fact, using too many resources at once, I think, is my issue.

Better way to put it is that I'm petering out somewhere around A1. The problem is not that I accomplish A1 and don't know where to go next. I don't even get that far.

The moving abroad didn't work for obvious reasons. You stuck to the expat circles, and you seem to have focused more on being in the country without actually studying.

I did study before, but not enough to actually get anywhere with it. I didn't feel I could do much with <A1 Japanese or French. And indeed that added to the frustration and blockage (#2 and #3 in my list of vices from the top post)

You haven't listed a single coursebook series meant to go from 0 to B2 or C1. It's as if you were taking grade one maths classes, reviewed a bunch of grade 1 maths coursebooks and workbooks, and then were surprised to fail at a maths university entrance exam.

I wasn't clear on this. I generally had coursebooks (at least for most of the languages). I just didn't list them, as they were language specific. For Japanese, for example, we used Genki books.

Thank you for your response!

Also, to clarify what someone else wrote – I didn't delete any of my posts. I think I'm under review as a new user, hence when I edited my post it disappeared until it was reapproved by a moderator (so it's back now).