Language learning after 50

[tomgosse]

I came across this article that says the people over fifty are better at learning languages than those younger. Hurray for us old folks !
Wish you’d learnt another language? Turns out, we’re actually better at it after 55 – so get to it!

[Adam]

Well, the headline looked encouraging ...

... but we're just better than the Contiki Age (who might be amusing themselves with more physical pursuits).

A study someone needs to sponsor is one that demonstrates that the Second Childhood is just as good for learning in as the first one was!

[sfuqua]

I didn't really start a new language between 30 and 58.
The differences, not all bad, between my first two languages and my latest one have more to do with the differences between immersion and part time learning than they do with age.

It "feels" to me, in fact, that I can pick up passive skills faster now than when I was younger.
I have seen old people who were terrible language learners, and I have seen young people who were terrible language learners.

Short of dementia, age should be no excuse.

I'm glad to see that if I keep learning a new language ever five years, I never have to worry about dementia (just kidding).

Now if I can just remember where I put my keys...

[sfuqua]

It occurs to me that my last post might be taken as offensive by someone who has a loved one suffering from dementia.
My mother died in January after a multiyear battle with dementia--
-- and I was losing my keys when I was 19.

[Speakeasy]

These “scientific studies” may very well have an element of the scientific method to them; however, my “gut feeling” tells me that they are also subject to a fair amount of conjecture, pre-conceived notions, misapplied method and downright pseudo-science. There is the additional possibility that the results of the studies were misconstrued or misreported.

Chances are that the members of this forum live and work in multi-cultural societies having a high immigrant population. What do your “unscientific observations” tell you about the level of language acquisition of immigrants over the age of 55 compared to that of immigrants between the ages of 18 and 35?

Let us be honest here, the younger immigrants involve themselves to a much greater degree socially in the receiving community than do their elders. Consequently, they learn the new language much more rapidly, have a higher level of vocabulary, speak more fluently, pick up the nuances of meaning that native-speakers communicate through stress and intonation, and often achieve a level of pronunciation that is virtually indistinguishable from that of native-speaker. In contrast, their elders connect with the receiving community mostly through the workplace and, quite understandably, choose to socialize with members of their own ethnic-linguistic groups. Consequently, irrespective of any “scientific studies”, with the rarest of exceptions, they never develop the linguistic skills of the younger immigrants. Try having a wide-ranging conversation with representatives of both demographic groups ten years following their arrival. Which group has made the most progress in terms of linguistic integration?

Study, schmuddy! Grump, grump, grump!

[Teango]

One of my all-time heroes is Mary Hobson, a beautiful example of someone who has battled through several personal adversities to become a world leader in her field, and all after the age of 50 (she's now almost 90!) Wishing to one day read Tolstoy's War and Peace in the original language (inspired by a gift from her daughter whilst convalescing from surgery), Mary took up learning Russian at the age of 56 for fun, much like some of us here. So entranced by the language, she went on to university to study Russian language and literature from the age of 62, eventually receiving a PhD in the field by 74. Now one of the world's leading experts on the Russian poet Pushkin, she's since won several awards for her works of translation, including the prestigious Pushkin Gold Medal. Here's an interview I often show in part to my students, where she speaks about how much she loved living in a student hostel in Moscow whilst in her 60s, and going out on the town with her roommates during the politically turbulent early 90s. An amazing lady, and an inspiration to us all!

[smallwhite]

If you're talking about memory, age MAY be a factor, but with technology like SRS, apps and internet, I feel that age has now become a small, insignificant factor. I'm learning 10+ times more words per day with SRS than when I was 10 years younger.

[pir]

Chances are that the members of this forum live and work in multi-cultural societies having a high immigrant population. What do your “unscientific observations” tell you about the level of language acquisition of immigrants over the age of 55 compared to that of immigrants between the ages of 18 and 35?

My unscientific observations tell me that it's not brain power that decides whether a new immigrant will pick up the language of their new country well, and integrate successfully into their new society, but their attitude towards it. I can imagine just what type of person you're thinking of, since I live on the west coast of Canada and have experience with a lot of immigrants, in particular from Asia -- and indeed, especially a lot of older Chinese expats from mainland China hardly learn any English (or French) at all, and don't socialize much with non-Chinese Canadians. They didn't actually want to come here; they ran away from China instead of running to Canada, and remain mostly uninterested in Canada, resentful that they had to leave their home country, and attached to their old ways. Of course they're not learning the language. But it's not their intellectual capabilities that are holding them back.

I also know a lot of older immigrants who do pretty well, including Chinese. I do think they tend to do worse than their younger compatriots, but I often wonder how much of that is because of the prevailing common "wisdom" that "only children learn foreign languages easily, adults struggle", and older people being more inclined to go with perceived "wisdom" such as that. They are also often very busy and don't take sufficient time to really study the language, which might be caused by some other bit of faulty information, about immersion making you soak up a language by osmosis -- which is largely nonsense. Younger immigrants often work in high-tech jobs where they have had previous exposure to English, so they might have a leg up. They also tend to socialize more with other Canadians.

On the other hand I know a lot of older, non-immigrant learners of languages who do fantastically well even in advanced years. I am just shy of 60, and was doing quite well into my late forties, but now I can't really compare anymore because I have severe chronic depression and that affects my energy levels, concentration, and memory transfer, so things that were once easy are a struggle. I don't really think it's my mental capabilities per se, because in other areas not affected by the depression, I still feel pretty sharp. And I do have the advantage of knowing how to learn, and having learned more than one language to a high level of proficiency. In my late forties I was definitely on top of my learning game, much more so than I was when younger.

[Montmorency]

Short of dementia, age should be no excuse.

One unfortunate thing about age is that hearing can become an issue.
It doesn't stop you learning (or continuing to learn) a language, but it does tend to limit some of the things you can do, which were never a problem when young, fit and with all faculties present and correct.
(I speak from experience).

[sfuqua]

Yes, of course; vision also can be a problem. Older people who do not really want to learn a language won't learn either. Old people who are overly concerned with their dignity, won't learn to speak.

I have been rather shocked at how well I've done learning after 60. It makes me suspect that the bad attitudes toward learning that sabotage learners at all ages may just be more comon in older learners.

My advice to an older learner who actually wants to learn is the same as it is for a younger learners, "Come on in, the water is fine."

edit: I added a missing word.