Memory techniques

[ryanheise]

What is your preferred approach to memorising vocabulary and/or other aspects of language? Is the approach you'd LIKE to use different from the approach you ACTUALLY use?

Who of us makes a conscious effort to form new memory connections? (I'm guessing most). And who tends to form these connections naturally without too much conscious effort?

Do you prefer to form artificial or absurd connections, or do you prefer to find logical and reasonable connections that fit into an existing framework of understanding?

How varied are the memory connections that you form? E.g. Do you connect words with colours, emotions, temperatures, or anything else unusual?

Does anyone use the sorts of systematic memory techniques used by memory champions at all, e.g. along the lines of the roman room?

Do you prefer to memorise with the help of a repetition algorithm (e.g. SRS) or do you prefer to let repetition happen naturally?

I'm interested to hear your approaches.

[tungemål]

Was it your Japanese studies that made you become interested in memory techniques? I became interested in memory techniques after going through the Heisig method for learning the Japanese charachters. To learn the 2000-3000 characters is an immense task and I think it is essential to use a technique to be able to remember them.

For learning vocabulary, for instance in German, I use this method:
- Saying the word aloud while thinking of the concept the word stands for. If it is a noun, visualising it. I avoid thinking of the translation.
- I use SRS
- and here is a tip: use etymology. Paradoxically, we remember better if we get more information about a word. I often try to find out about the etymology of the word and what other words the word is related to. For instance, one German word for firewood or a split log is Scheit. This is the same as the Old Norse word skið, and from this word came the word "ski" because early skis were made from logs that were split.
- I think writing by hand is beneficial for remembering vocabulary but, regrettably, I don't do this.

[ryanheise]

Was it your Japanese studies that made you become interested in memory techniques?

It was actually being an underperforming high school kid several decades ago with a poor memory that first got me interested in memory techniques. I remember as a teenager when I realised how weak my memory was, frequenting the self help section of the bookstore, and buying various books on improving your memory, using mind maps, etc. In the end, all of these techniques were too tiring and none of them really took, and I sort of developed an aversion to any and all artificial memory techniques.

I remember one day at the bookstore, an old man said to me "Don't buy those books, they'll rot your mind!". I found that an unusual attitude to have for someone browsing through a bookstore!! But then I thought about it afterwards and realised that what he was probably trying to hint at was that to truly excel at something, and to wake up your brain, you need to figure things out for yourself.

After that encounter, I went straight to another shop and bought another book: a pocket notebook with empty pages. I carried it with me on the long 1.5 hour daily train rides to school from the blue mountains to the Sydney Conservatorium of Music, and in it I would write out my own theories about why my memory wasn't working, my weaknesses, and ideas to try out that might improve my memory. Unfortunately one of those notebooks accidentally went through a washing machine cycle in my right trouser pocket, but I believe I've still got the notebook somewhere in a box with the pages stuck together and the ink washed.

Anyway, the gist of those scribblings were along the lines of memory approaches that favoured the logical rather than the absurd. In hindsight, this was clearly influenced by the subjects I was studying at school, such as mathematics, science and economics where there are real, coherent theories behind everything. I found that there was no need for creating artificial absurd associations to strengthen memories when the underlying thing can be understood. And I found that if I could understand it at a deep level, then I could easily memorise it.

Incidentally, I also studied French and German briefly at high school (when they were compulsory) before giving them up (when they become electives). I had no interest in languages as a kid, and it's easy in hindsight to see why I had little inclination to continue their study when those subjects were largely focused on memorising large amounts of vocabulary without any apparent theory behind the vocabulary. My preferred memory approach of understanding the underlying theory did not apply beyond just the grammar. For vocabulary, you more or less just have to memorise it. I can now see why a lot of people who study languages (at least in their first couple of foreign languages when they have less of a framework to slot things into) like to form absurd memory connections, and I can see why it works, but it's just something that I have never been good at and find mentally taxing. I don't seem to be able to fight against an approach I have no motivation to try.

The paradox for me is that there are two areas where my memory excels: one is scientific knowledge where there is a coherent logic behind it, but the other is music which is far more like a language in that there doesn't need to be a strictly logical reason behind a melody or phrase.

In the notebook that I kept as a kid, I never actually reflected on how my musical memory worked, I only focused on my weaknesses and not my strengths. If I had, I might have gained some insights early on that could have applied to languages.

A few years after leaving high school, I suddenly became intensely interested in languages and I've been struggling with the memory side of things for most of that time. When memorising new vocabulary, I use a combination of:

- forming a connection between the foreign word and a similar sounding English word.
- understanding the logic behind the word if there is any (e.g. if I recognise one of the chinese compounds embedded in it that appears in other words).
- huge amounts of repetition.

For me, what has helped more than anything else is huge amounts of repetition, when I can afford to do it. At one point in time I was spending 5 hours a day with Japanese, and I could easily bring new words to memory for that period of time. This kind of environment also made it easier to form more connections because I could notice more connections having more things in my head to connect between.

If I were to reflect now on my musical memory and how that might help me with languages, I would say I approached music in a very playful way. Similar to the way Richard Simcott would try to copy accents he heard on TV for fun, I would always try to copy jingles I heard on TV on the piano for fun. This kind of playful activity really hones your observational skills, and because it's playful you are not really fighting against something that you have no motivation for. So applying this to languages, I think Khatz was right when he said "keep it fun". If it motivates you, you'll spend more time with the language, and for me at least, spending more time with the language is the number one thing that has helped.

I became interested in memory techniques after going through the Heisig method for learning the Japanese charachters. To learn the 2000-3000 characters is an immense task and I think it is essential to use a technique to be able to remember them.

For learning vocabulary, for instance in German, I use this method:
- Saying the word aloud while thinking of the concept the word stands for. If it is a noun, visualising it. I avoid thinking of the translation.
- I use SRS
- and here is a tip: use etymology. Paradoxically, we remember better if we get more information about a word. I often try to find out about the etymology of the word and what other words the word is related to. For instance, one German word for firewood or a split log is Scheit. This is the same as the Old Norse word skið, and from this word came the word "ski" because early skis were made from logs that were split.
- I think writing by hand is beneficial for remembering vocabulary but, regrettably, I don't do this.

Thanks for sharing that. I agree with you about etymology, and this is also something that we can do with Chinese compounds. I also like that you consider writing it out by hand to improve memory, and this adds a physical element to memory which is something that Stuart Jay Raj talks about (embedding the language in your body).

What spurred me on to post this topic was watching some of Stuart Jay Raj's videos where he forms a really intimate connection with the language, making the language part of his body and part of his emotions. Maybe this is also what I was doing for music too, so maybe it is within me to do this.

If anyone out there is forming connections in this way, I'd love to hear how you go about it.

[Gustav Aschenbach]

Do you prefer to form artificial or absurd connections, or do you prefer to find logical and reasonable connections that fit into an existing framework of understanding?

I like artificial or absurd connections, but I don't make an effort to invent them, they come naturally (or don't). To sit down and invent a story just to memorize a single word (or e.g. a Chinese character) seems way to much work for me.

How varied are the memory connections that you form? E.g. Do you connect words with colours, emotions, temperatures, or anything else unusual?

It's usually absurd stories/scenes that I see in my mind (depending on the context I see a specific word/expression in).

Does anyone use the sorts of systematic memory techniques used by memory champions at all, e.g. along the lines of the roman room?

No, never. I think the roman room is good to prepare for a test where you have to reproduce factual knowledge, but not for language acquisition.

Do you prefer to memorise with the help of a repetition algorithm (e.g. SRS) or do you prefer to let repetition happen naturally?

I use an SRS as a "back up". For me it has proven to be very effective and I will continue doing it. It is also the minimum I do every day for my language studies (100 Anki cards every morning for French since 2011 or 2012).

[ryanheise]

I like artificial or absurd connections, but I don't make an effort to invent them, they come naturally (or don't). To sit down and invent a story just to memorize a single word (or e.g. a Chinese character) seems way to much work for me.

Hi Gustav,

It's really cool that they come naturally to you. I wonder how this natural ability comes about? I think also comedians would be really good at seeing absurd connections everywhere.

Does anyone use the sorts of systematic memory techniques used by memory champions at all, e.g. along the lines of the roman room?

No, never. I think the roman room is good to prepare for a test where you have to reproduce factual knowledge, but not for language acquisition.

I mentioned it only because Olly from "I will teach you a language" had a guest on his podcast once who talked about various techniques like this, and later Olly made a short course and said he used the techniques himself for remembering certain lists of core words. This approach doesn't appeal to me either, but I guess it could conceivably work in limited situations like Olly referenced.

I use an SRS as a "back up". For me it has proven to be very effective and I will continue doing it. It is also the minimum I do every day for my language studies (100 Anki cards every morning for French since 2011 or 2012).

I used to use SRS, but I do think the big flaw of SRS is that your reviews can keep growing and growing, and if you miss a day of reviews, they stack up and make the next day twice as difficult, so a lot of people feel like slaves to their SRS and unable to take a break. There are people working on ways to tackle these problems, although I've since switched to doing something similar to what Glossika does (or at least the original Glossika), where I do all the repetitions up front within the first week, and just constantly move onto new and fresh material. Basically, every sentence is retired after one week, but I still get natural repetition beyond that because old vocabulary is bound to reappear in the new sentences. Seems to be working well so far.

[slowmoon]

When reading tungemål's explanation of the etymology of Scheit (a new word for me), I thought:

1. Scheit is pronounced like shite, which is a British/Irish version of shit that sounds particularly funny to me.
2. A "Lincoln log" is an American slang term referring to a long, solid log-like shit.
3. So a Lincoln log is a kind of shite/Scheit, which is a German log.

Then I laughed to myself. I'm pretty sure I won't forget das Scheit.
Sorry to be so vulgar, but when it comes to memory, vulgarity helps.

[Voytek]

I use Anki with the most frequently used Swedish words and add some words from time to time down the road.

The only pattern I observed is the better I "know" the language the easier it is for me to remember new words. For that reason for Swedish I review 150 words per day and 10-20 new words per day and for Japanese only 40-50 words per day and no more than 10 words per day but usually I add new words only every 4-5 days. And of course I read (listening to the audio at the same time) in Swedish 10 minutes per day which is like a massive review/repetition and look up/learn new words without putting them into Anki unless I think them useful. I've been using that approach for Swedish since I stared learning the language three years ago and like now my comprehension is at the level of 95-99% depending on the difficulty of the text/audio.

[Gustav Aschenbach]

It's really cool that they come naturally to you. I wonder how this natural ability comes about?

I don't know, it only comes sometimes. I don't force it at all.

I used to use SRS, but I do think the big flaw of SRS is that your reviews can keep growing and growing, and if you miss a day of reviews, they stack up and make the next day twice as difficult, so a lot of people feel like slaves to their SRS and unable to take a break.

I know what you mean, but I don't really have that problem, because I have limited the number of repetitions to a total of 100 (including up to 20 new cards), so I always review 100 cards no matter what. If they stack up I don't care, it's always 100 (or less when fewer cards are due, of course).

There are people working on ways to tackle these problems, although I've since switched to doing something similar to what Glossika does (or at least the original Glossika), where I do all the repetitions up front within the first week, and just constantly move onto new and fresh material. Basically, every sentence is retired after one week, but I still get natural repetition beyond that because old vocabulary is bound to reappear in the new sentences. Seems to be working well so far.

That's good, too, but I find SRS a very "concentrated" way of memorizing. I mean I have cards from 2012 that show up after years, sometimes with rare words, not sure if I'd encounter the same words/expressions in real life (or often enough in order to retain them since I don't live in a country where the language is spoken)...

[Gustav Aschenbach]

For that reason for Swedish I review 150 words per day and 10-20 new words per day and for Japanese only 40-50 words per day and no more than 10 words per day but usually I add new words only every 4-5 days. And of course I read (listening to the audio at the same time) in Swedish 10 minutes per day which is like a massive review/repetition and look up/learn new words without putting them into Anki unless I think them useful. I've been using that approach for Swedish since I stared learning the language three years ago and like now my comprehension is at the level of 95-99% depending on the difficulty of the text/audio.

Interesting. Do you also do other things or is it basically the only thing you do for studying Swedish?

[Voytek]

For that reason for Swedish I review 150 words per day and 10-20 new words per day and for Japanese only 40-50 words per day and no more than 10 words per day but usually I add new words only every 4-5 days. And of course I read (listening to the audio at the same time) in Swedish 10 minutes per day which is like a massive review/repetition and look up/learn new words without putting them into Anki unless I think them useful. I've been using that approach for Swedish since I stared learning the language three years ago and like now my comprehension is at the level of 95-99% depending on the difficulty of the text/audio.

Interesting. Do you also do other things or is it basically the only thing you do for studying Swedish?

Apart from that currently I'm using Glossika (for ingraining basic grammar patterns) and I'm planning to learn some grammar from a textbook (using Anki for reviewing). Later on, when I'm at a C2 level, I'll be limiting myself to watching videos in Swedish on YouTube like I do with my Spanish. I noticed only one drawback of this approach; since it's only around 100-200 of reading/listening in total before switching to videos on YouTube, my Spanish writing skills are rather poor and I don't expect it to be any better with my Swedish. I speak Spanish proficiently and if it comes to Swedish I need a bit more speaking practice.

I'm going to tackle Japanese with the same approach; Anki and reading/listening 10 minutes per day. At least till I'm at an intermediate level.