Kató Lomb's book

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reineke
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Re: Kató Lomb's book

Postby reineke » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:36 am

Iversen wrote:The authors of that article also show some degree of prejudice in using the following false comparison:

Quote: "Perhaps the only difference between multilinguals and polyglots is that the latter spend their time studying languages they do not need for everyday practical purposes. In this they may be akin to amateur musicians who learn to play dozens of musical instruments. Interestingly, we do not see reports on such musicians – even though they undoubtedly exist and have valuable knowledge and expertise – because we know that the end result still lands them quite far from Yo-Yo Ma*."

I have been heavily involved with music on the amateur level in former times, and the picture of 'promiscuous' amateurs beset by instrumental Wanderlust is simply wrong. Amateurs are probably LESS likely to play many instruments than professional musicians, but the professionals have typically learnt one instrument (or activity like singing, conduction or composing) to a level of excellence where practically no amateurs can follow them. And then that's the activity they become known for. What they do at home isn't known to the public.

So why do the two authors compare con amore polyglot learners with bungling amateur musicians? Well, because it supports the idea that only monoglots can become really good at their one and only language - like mr. Ma at playing his cello. NB: I don't think the two authors support this idea to its full - and totally unfounded - extent, otherwise they wouldn't write so much about bilingualism. But they clearly support the weaker version of it where you have blind faith in people who learnt their languages because they live in a multilingual society, but no faith at all in those who choose themselves which languages to learn (and how many).


Language enthusiasts and professionals love metaphors. The musical instrument comparison was especially bad because, unlike a musical instrument, "language is the only thing worth knowing even poorly".

*Yo-Yo Ma is a Chinese-American cellist.
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Re: Kató Lomb's book

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:38 am

The people I know who play just one instrument are a minority, and for what it's worth, the best musicians I know happen to play several instruments. It's comparable to polyglots with several languages on a C level while are there others who struggle with their first L2.
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Re: Kató Lomb's book

Postby Iversen » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:16 am

To some extent I have to agree with Jeff. Many amateurs can play the piano and one or two other instruments. And those who are into percussion have of course a whole lot of noise producing contraptions in their battery. But apart from percussion I haven't met any amateur who owned and could play, say, ten instruments. Those who own that many instruments are more likely to be collectors than players.

And speaking about Kato Lomb, she is normally credited with something like sixteen languages. But she clearly indicated in her book that some of her languages 'lived in her', others had to be reawoken before use and still others were mainly for passive use - which doesn't mean that she didn't know them well, but just not in a way targeted towards conversation. You also need to know a language well to produce a good translation.
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Re: Kató Lomb's book

Postby reineke » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:30 pm

Iversen wrote:To some extent I have to agree with Jeff. Many amateurs can play the piano and one or two other instruments. And those who are into percussion have of course a whole lot of noise producing contraptions in their battery. But apart from percussion I haven't met any amateur who owned and could play, say, ten instruments. Those who own that many instruments are more likely to be collectors than players.

And speaking about Kato Lomb, she is normally credited with something like sixteen languages. But she clearly indicated in her book that some of her languages 'lived in her', others had to be reawoken before use and still others were mainly for passive use - which doesn't mean that she didn't know them well, but just not in a way targeted towards conversation. You also need to know a language well to produce a good translation.


Only four languages "lived"inside her simultaneously with Hungarian: Russian, English, French and German. She could switch between these languages "with great ease". She both translated and interpreted from languages that didn't "live" inside her so I don't think that the ability to conduct a conversation is the main distinguishing feature here.

“How many languages do I speak? I have only one mother tongue: Hungarian. I speak Russian, German, English, and French well enough to be able to interpret or translate between any of them extemporaneously. I have to prepare a bit for Spanish, Italian, Japanese, Chinese, and Polish. At such times I leaf through the parts of my diaries written in these languages. I can read Swedish, Norwegian, Romanian, Portuguese, Dutch, Bulgarian, and Czech literature; I can translate their written—political or technical—texts.”

"“We know a language when we can talk spontaneously for five or six minutes on a topic we understand, in a way that our possible mistakes in pronunciation, stress, grammar, or syntax do not hinder the comprehension of our message.” My peers, unfortunately, took issue with my definition."

Harmony of Babel (1988)

http://tesl-ej.org/pdf/ej66/TESL-EJ_HarmonyOfBabel.pdf

The book offers some interesting thoughts about language learning including some extra insight into Japanese studies. The viewpoints of several polyglots are discussed during an imaginary round table.

Since I'm here, here's also the link to her most famous book:

Polyglot: How I Learn Languages
http://www.tesl-ej.org/books/lomb-2nd-Ed.pdf

I see that Iversen has linked to Krashen's article. Hyperlinking to the word "here" might get missed:

http://www.sdkrashen.com/content/articles/1996_notes_on_a_polyglot.pdf

"Whenever possible, she obtained aural input, from conversation or from radio. About her core novel method: "Of course, Dr Lomb is aware that reading alone will not suffice to understand the oral, everyday language." She notes that "those who use my method may find difficulty in the oral language." Error correction "can have very negative effects and can actually make language acquisition more difficult".
"She does not recommend learning vocabulary out of context". "Grammar study...is not the core of language acquisition".
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Re: Kató Lomb's book

Postby mercutio » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:32 pm

diplomaticus wrote:The links are not working for me.


Nor me!

Also no one has said what the book is called?
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Re: Kató Lomb's book

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:28 pm

As reineke wrote just a few hours ago:

Polyglot: How I Learn Languages
http://www.tesl-ej.org/books/lomb-2nd-Ed.pdf


That's the name of the book, and the link works.
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Re: Kató Lomb's book

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:55 pm

Thanks Serpent for sharing this.

I had to laugh at the bird translation comment :D
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Re: Kató Lomb's book

Postby mercutio » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:37 pm

For some reason no matter how hard or by what method I try to convert this pdf of this book to kindle format it refuses

Anyone managed it?
It's not for sale in uk kindle store
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Re: Kató Lomb's book

Postby galaxyrocker » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:54 pm

mercutio wrote:For some reason no matter how hard or by what method I try to convert this pdf of this book to kindle format it refuses

Anyone managed it?
It's not for sale in uk kindle store


PDF to Kindle converters are notoriously bad; I doubt you'll have much success. You might be better of trying to find it in an epub format and converting.
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Re: Kató Lomb's book

Postby mercutio » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:44 am

galaxyrocker wrote:
mercutio wrote:For some reason no matter how hard or by what method I try to convert this pdf of this book to kindle format it refuses

Anyone managed it?
It's not for sale in uk kindle store


PDF to Kindle converters are notoriously bad; I doubt you'll have much success. You might be better of trying to find it in an epub format and converting.

I tried that but couldn't find any solution
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