Glossika repetitions and fluency

[mentecuerpo]

What do you think?

Source:
Glossika website.
https://help.glossika.com/en/articles/1 ... er-of-reps

Milestones in Your Language Journey

25,000 Reps → Speak sentences with natural flow and accent
50,000 Reps → Engage in casual conversations at the speed of native speakers
75,000 Reps → Hone your skills in specialized topics
100,000 Reps → Mastery level where you can say just about anything

25k repetitions, would that be about 48 hours of repetitions?

[jeff_lindqvist]

Hmm, let me think. The daily dosis of 150 reps took me about 18 minutes... yeah, I think you're right.

[ryanheise]

25,000 Reps → Speak sentences with natural flow and accent

I really like the ideas behind Glossika, although probably results will not be the same for every person and every language. Depending on the distance between your source and target languages, you may find vocabulary sticks to varying degrees, and as with anything else, some people may have a higher aptitude in languages than others (this could even simply be because you've had some prior language learning experience).

Personally, the thing I've learnt in life is to take any estimate and multiply it by 2, and then multiply it by 2 again, and then I've got something closer to the truth.

[Purangi]

25,000 Reps → Speak sentences with natural flow and accent
50,000 Reps → Engage in casual conversations at the speed of native speakers
75,000 Reps → Hone your skills in specialized topics
100,000 Reps → Mastery level where you can say just about anything

I wonder if anyone on this forum has reached those numbers, specially 100,000 reps?

I use the old Glossika (PDF + mp3) for Korean. I mostly use it to improve listening comprehension (that is, I don't repeat after the speaker every time). Up to now, I reviewed the first 2000 sentences at least 5-7 times, so that would be around 10,000-14,000 reps. I have seen a very obvious improvement in listening comprehension, so it worked for me based on my goals.

[tungemål]

Does that mean listening to one sentence 25.000 times?
Could someone give a summary of the Glossika method?

[ryanheise]

There are basically two versions of Glossika. The original came out in the form of MP3 files and PDFs, and then I believe printed versions. I have only ever used the free sample, but here is the instruction sheet that came with that:

link

The current version is a software-based solution that uses "AI" (the term AI might be a bit overused here) to adapt your learning schedule.

I don't think it means you need to do one sentence 25,000 times because if each rep takes around 7 seconds and you have 3,000 sentences, that would be a total of 145,833 hours. If you trained for 8 hours every day, that would take 50 years to reach just the first milestone!

My understanding is something like this. In one day, you learn 10 new sentences and review 40 old ones. For each of the 10 new sentences, you do 5 reps. Yesterday's and the day before's sentences are reviewed/rep'd 4 times each. The sentences from 3 days ago are reviewed/rep'd 3 times each. And the sentences from 4 days ago are reviewed 2 times each. So in one day, you're doing 10 x 5 + 10 x 4 + 10 x 4 + 10 x 3 + 10 x 2 = 180 reps. There are also variations on the schedule depending on how fast you want to learn and how much time you have per day.

Note that in the original system at least, you do all of your reps up front and after 5 days you're done with a sentence and you keep moving forward. This is distinct from traditional SRS like Supermemo, Anki and so on, where you keep reviewing those sentences on into the future, at ever increasing intervals.

One thing I like about the Glossika idea is that it avoids the review hell that plagues Anki users, where reviews just keep on piling up and can get out of control. Glossika takes the approach that there is no need to review old sentences after a certain point because if you keep moving forward, you're bound to get that repetition of the old vocabulary and syntax in new sentences and new contexts, which to me, sounds much more attractive.

[mentecuerpo]

I don't think it means you need to do one sentence 25,000 times because if each rep takes around 7 seconds and you have 3,000 sentences, that would be a total of 145,833 hours. If you trained for 8 hours every day, that would take 50 years to reach just the first milestone!

My understanding is something like this. In one day, you learn 10 new sentences and review 40 old ones. For each of the 10 new sentences, you do 5 reps. Yesterday's and the day before's sentences are reviewed/rep'd 4 times each. The sentences from 3 days ago are reviewed/rep'd 3 times each. And the sentences from 4 days ago are reviewed 2 times each. So in one day, you're doing 10 x 5 + 10 x 4 + 10 x 4 + 10 x 3 + 10 x 2 = 180 reps. There are also variations on the schedule depending on how fast you want to learn and how much time you have per day.

You make an excellent point.

It will drive anyone nuts to repeat the same phrase 25k times. Still, nobody can dispute that the phrase would be committed to long term memory and probably, also show up in nightmares at night and during daytime as unwelcoming flashbacks. The learner will be hallucinating words coming out to the world. This dedicated learner will probably end up committed long-term to a psychiatric institution.

You are right; the 25k includes all repetitions, no matter which sentence.

I use the Glossika online, and every day, it just picks old sentences for me to review automatically. I don't have to do anything else, but to repeat them, then, after I have completed the review session, it reminds me to pick 25 new phrases to add to my pull.

While reviewing or learning new phrases, the Glossika online gives you a choice to do "listening only" or "full review" where you must type dictation style and does not let you move forward till you got the typing right. So, the phrases keep showing during the exercise, and the user concludes the session once he got all the right spelling when typing the phrases after hearing them.

I think that Glossika remembers your spelling mistakes and keeps throwing the sentences you had trouble within future repetitions, like the SRS modified system.

In my case, I don't want to slow down typing; I prefer to do the shadowing. I am not interested in learning to spell words. I am interested in talking to natives in the street. Besides, doing the written exercise significantly slows me down. I can see the benefits of doing it, if you like to text or write emails, etc.

On SuperMemo, I think the software was developed by a polish person named Piotr Wozniak. I used to use SuperMemo about ten years ago. There was a big following of users, learning all kinds of thigs, it was not just for languages, in fact, it was intended to learn Wikipedia articles and general knowledge. You could even put YouTube video on it. Then, Anki came, and SuperMemo was SuperForgotten.

[ilmari]

Then, Anki came, and SuperMemo was SuperForgotten.

Please allow me to differ. I think SuperMemo is alive and kicking, and has even extended its reach. It is now available not only as a Windows application, but also on iOS and Android, and online.
https://www.supermemo.com/en

SuperMemo also keeps improving its algorithm.
https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Algorithm_SM-18
https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Algorithm_SM-17

SuperMemo also offers a wide range of courses (not all of equal depth or quality). I am personally using the advanced parts of their Extreme English series, which allow me to painlessly expand my English vocabulary.

[ryanheise]

FYI, I sent a question to Glossika through their website chat about how different these milestones could be for a really difficult language, and also whether Glossika has advice specific to difficult languages. I got a response from Sheena:

Hello, thanks for getting in touch. It's an average performance, but of course everyone is different. What we would like to focus is that no matter what level you are at, you'll have to practice at least 100,000 times in order to speak a foreign language fluently. Some articles you might find interesting:

Advantages of Deliberate Practice over Random Practice
This Forgotten Fluency Trick has been Used for 1000s of Years

Although this answer didn't address the specifics of my question, I found the first article interesting as it pertains to this forum's recent discussions about the ideal ratio of known to unknown words (and grammar) for a learner.

[mentecuerpo]

Then, Anki came, and SuperMemo was SuperForgotten.

Please allow me to differ. I think SuperMemo is alive and kicking, and has even extended its reach. It is now available not only as a Windows application, but also on iOS and Android, and online.
https://www.supermemo.com/en

SuperMemo also keeps improving its algorithm.
https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Algorithm_SM-18
https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Algorithm_SM-17

SuperMemo also offers a wide range of courses (not all of equal depth or quality). I am personally using the advanced parts of their Extreme English series, which allow me to painlessly expand my English vocabulary.

Thanks for the update.
The major problem I have with the new SuperMemo software is that it requires Personal Data of usage to be shared with SuperMemo via internet connection. I opted not to check the option. Therefore, the new software does not work. The only alternative to activate the software is to agree to share the user's data with SuperMemo.
The software ten years ago did not have the requirement to share data.