Quebec denies French student's immigration over English thesis chapter

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Quebec denies French student's immigration over English thesis chapter

Postby Carmody » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:34 am

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Re: Quebec denies French student's immigration over English thesis chapter

Postby Cèid Donn » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:41 am

Honestly, as someone who reads a lot of BBC reporting, I think this story sounds very biased and likely omitted vital information.
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Re: Quebec denies French student's immigration over English thesis chapter

Postby tommus » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:59 am

Here is the same story in the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) news:

Quebec denies French citizen's immigration application because chapter of thesis was in English
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Re: Quebec denies French student's immigration over English thesis chapter

Postby lavengro » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:18 am

It is challenging to see how this topic can proceed much further without stepping hard all over the proscription against political discussion.
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Re: Quebec denies French student's immigration over English thesis chapter

Postby Bluepaint » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:20 am

lavengro wrote:It is challenging to see how this topic can proceed much further without stepping hard all over the proscription against political discussion.


Hence the admin checking every new reply. Thank goodness for long train journeys.

It is a frightfully silly application result. I wonder what other daft examples we can find in the news?
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Re: Quebec denies French student's immigration over English thesis chapter

Postby Serpent » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:54 am

Dubois then passed a French test recognized by the ministry and sent the results to the government.
Any info on which level it was? Is CEFR recognized in Canada?
In addition, Dubois — who started her own business after graduating — is now considered a self-employed worker. The PEQ does not allow self-employed graduates to apply.
Seems like they wanted to reject her on a technicality?
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Postby Morgana » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:34 am

Last edited by Morgana on Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quebec denies French student's immigration over English thesis chapter

Postby Speakeasy » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:43 am

Cèid Donn wrote:Honestly, as someone who reads a lot of BBC reporting, I think this story sounds very biased and likely omitted vital information.
I just watched the young lady being interviewed by the highly-reputable all-news Québécois television station RDI. The details that she relayed correspond to those already reported by numerous news agencies. She had hired a legal adviser, who was also interviewed by RDI; he was of the opinion that the Québec Government had not committed a legal error which might otherwise be subject to an appeal before the courts.

lavengro wrote:It is challenging to see how this topic can proceed much further without stepping hard all over the proscription against political discussion.
As I live in Québec, I became aware of the situation as soon as it broke on the local news. I mused about posting a link to one of the local newspapers but decided that doing so would be judged as provoking a political debate. Quite frankly, I am surprised that this topic has not been shut down and deleted.

Serpent wrote:
Dubois then passed a French test recognized by the ministry and sent the results to the government.
Any info on which level it was? Is CEFR recognized in Canada?
In addition, Dubois — who started her own business after graduating — is now considered a self-employed worker. The PEQ does not allow self-employed graduates to apply.
Seems like they wanted to reject her on a technicality?
Generally speaking the French language requirements for immigrants are CEFR B2. The young lady reported that she passed the test without difficulty. Nevertheless, the young lady’s Visa was revoked.

Another bizarre part of this story is that the young lady's programme director at the Université de Laval had supported her appeal by noting that it is common practice in the Science Faculties of many Québec universities to not just support, but to encourage, the submission of papers at least partially in English as doing so permits their reading by a wider, more international, audience. His support was duly noted, but discounted.

Local Québécois journalists and radio/TV talk-show hosts are scandalized by this story. Clearly, this damages the province's international image. Furthermore, given the ease with which students access and share information about their ex-pat experiences, the province will now have to "convince" prospective international applicants to its universities that they will not suffer a similar fate.

Perhaps the following crosses the line: several Québécois journalists have openly suggested that, had the young student submitted a portion of her paper in any language other than English (for example, Russian), that her paper would have been accepted, that the Minister would never have been involved, and that her Visa would never have been revoked. Clearly, an extension of such a point would fall within the political realm.

EDITED:
Paragraphing.
Tinkering.
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Re: Quebec denies French student's immigration over English thesis chapter

Postby iguanamon » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:05 pm

When pride and bureaucracy get together, they are a potent mix to overcome. They seem to always put the human factor aside in favor of a stubborn adherence to the letter of the law, facts be damned. When the stupidity of a decision is made manifest, pride won't allow the bureaucracy to admit its error. In the meantime a young woman's life is in shambles... but what matters to the bureaucrat's mind is that the bureaucracy holds. It seems to be part of the human condition most everywhere, not just in Quebec.
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Re: Quebec denies French student's immigration over English thesis chapter

Postby Cavesa » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:24 pm

Speakeasy wrote:Another bizarre part of this story is that the young lady's programme director at the Université de Laval had supported her appeal by noting that it is common practice in the Science Faculties of many Québec universities to not just support, but to encourage, the submission of papers at least partially in English as doing so permits their reading by a wider, more international, audience. His support was duly noted, but discounted.

Local Québécois journalists and radio/TV talk-show hosts are scandalized by this story. Clearly, this damages the province's international image. Furthermore, given the ease with which students access and share information about their ex-pat experiences, the province will now have to "convince" prospective international applicants to its universities that they will not suffer a similar fate.

Perhaps the following crosses the line: several Québécois journalists have openly suggested that, had the young student submitted a portion of her paper in any language other than English (for example, Russian), that her paper would have been accepted, that the Minister would never have been involved, and that her Visa would never have been revoked. Clearly, an extension of such a point would fall within the political realm.


Yes, this is an important bit. Something I immediately thought of, when reading the headline.

Even here in France, people are encouraged, or sometimes even required, to write a thesis in English. Or partially in English. So, this woman is being punished for something she did because she was supposed to. Very probably, she could have written the whole thing in French without any difficulty (she's French after all). It is not lack of skill, or laziness. It also has very little to do with the rest of her studies, 100% of the oral communication and majority of the written communication could have been in French, for all we know.

The problem is very clearly the reality of the universities not being reflected by the law and by the quota for French representation in the final works. Either the immigration should reflect the reality, or the universities should know the law and not encourage any English in the dissertations (instead, there could be two versions of the article, or whatever. More complicated, but not ruining anyone's dreams).

I don't think that any other language would have been a smaller problem than English. It may be subjectively seen as less provocative, sure, but it would change nothing concerning the French quota. And above all, it wouldn't happen with any other language. English has been spreading unhealthily all over the science world, it is not ok, that people are pushed to publish in English without any alternative and basically underperform in the international communication (really. Let's go to a congress, and force the English natives to sound just as clever in Spanish). However, punishing the individual young researchers for actually fulfilling the expectations from them, that is not the way to change anything. The only thing Quebec will achieve is driving these excellent people away, and further strengthening the anglophone world.
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