Zygon Learning Machine [Languages]: Hypnotism! Mind Warriors!

General discussion about learning languages
DaraghM
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Re: Zygon Learning Machine [Languages]: Flashing Lights, Hypnotism?

Postby DaraghM » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:23 am

The ZLM is a brilliant way to learn a language while you commute to work. The slight disadvantage of not seeing where you are going, is overcome by the immersive sound drowning out the screeching of cars breaking. You can also use it in work to minimise distractions from your phone, computer screen and interruptions from colleagues. A truly incredible device.
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Cainntear
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Re: Zygon Learning Machine [Languages]: Flashing Lights, Hypnotism?

Postby Cainntear » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:30 am

Speakeasy wrote:Arguing backwards from the absence of successful commercial applications as proof that the fundamentals of the Zygon Learning Machine are not based on sound neuro-linguistics is not a valid logical argument. This is tantamount to trying to prove a negative. There are numerous cases where scientifically-sound applications have never made it to the marketplace or, when they did, they were pronounced dead upon arrival.

Well, I start my assumption from the claims on every language-learning package ever, which all claim to be based on science, but never actually match what any scientific study does, and all seem to be the same as many of the things which they claim to be "better" than, and completely different to other things that claim to be based on science. Until I see the same thing twice, I ascribe "scientific" claims to be marketing bullshit.

Maybe I'm just too cynical.

Nevertheless, it should clear from my framing of the Zygon presentation (viz., the deliberate inclusion of an extract on “Neuro-linguistic Programming” and my frequent use of “sic”) that I find the claims of the company, and those of its supporters, doubtful, very, very doubtful.

It was indeed clear, which makes it all the more surprising that you would have a go at me for poo-pooing the claims of scientific revolution.
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Speakeasy
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Re: Zygon Learning Machine [Languages]: Hypnotism! Mind Warriors!

Postby Speakeasy » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:43 am

leosmith wrote:… I'm ready to become a mind Warrior and kick some Zygon ass...
Leosmith, what brilliance! Having spent a fair amount of time composing this thread and responding to the doubts of naysayers and, having sought refuge through the stimulation of my own alpha, beta, delta, and theta brain waves, I overlooked the invitation to become a “Mind Warrior”. I have updated the title of this thread accordingly; thank you, thank you, thank you! Perhaps we’ll see one another at the Mind Warrior Recruiting Office, I’ll be the one wearing the tinfoil hat … hmm, on second thought, that might not work, either.

DaraghM wrote:The ZLM is a brilliant way to learn a language while you commute to work … a truly incredible device.
Thank you for your expression of support for the Zygon Learning Machine. I am rather surprised that, as a long-time member, you had not brought the ZLM to the attention of the forum earlier. How would you compare/contrast the “brilliant way to learn a language” with your experiences using other approaches? As to the language courses themselves, how do they differ from Assimil, DLI/FSI, Linguaphone, Glossika, and the like (depth of coverage, methodology, explanations of the L2 structure, quantity of audio recordings, etc.)?

Cainntear wrote: … Maybe I'm just too cynical...
Youthful cynicism is based on reading about someone else’s follies, it’s no more valid than Monday morning Quarterbacking. Real cynicism, the kind that you earn, the kind that you can proudly wear on your chest, is based on an accumulation of bad experiences viewed in the light of serious afterthought; it is also the kind that youth casts aside as the pessimism of ageing. Returning to the programme …

Cainntear wrote: … It was indeed clear, which makes it all the more surprising that you would have a go at me for poo-pooing the claims of scientific revolution.
We clearly agree that the claims are, at the very least, very, very doubtful. My objection was that we cannot base are shared scepticism as to the scientific validity of this modern marvel (sic) on its present absence from the marketplace. Ditto for the company’s past legal problems, which were not related to the patently false promises of learning a language over-night. In other words, whereas a decent person may have every reason to be morally and intellectually offended by the laughable and misleading assertions of a Snake-oil Salesman, demonstrating the falseness of the product can be an extremely difficult task. So, while we agree on the substance, we disagree as to the reasoning/argumentation.

EDITED:
Typos.
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DaraghM
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Re: Zygon Learning Machine [Languages]: Hypnotism! Mind Warriors!

Postby DaraghM » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:20 pm

Speakeasy wrote: I am rather surprised that, as a long-time member, you had not brought the ZLM to the attention of the forum earlier. How would you compare/contrast the “brilliant way to learn a language” with your experiences using other approaches? As to the language courses themselves, how do they differ from Assimil, DLI/FSI, Linguaphone, Glossika, and the like (depth of coverage, methodology, explanations of the L2 structure, quantity of audio recordings, etc.)?
.


I should clarify that I haven’t used it, but I’m basing my opinion on the aforementioned description, and the picture. I’ve probably purchased a number of language products over the years, and it definitely beats the following.

Subliminal Spanish – Simultaneous Spanish and English in both ears.
Pentons Overseas – All audio Vocabulary courses – Relaxing music that drowns out the actual words.
Colloquial Latvian by Christopher Mosely – Christopher doesn’t speak Latvian, but decides to be included in the audio.
Teach Yourself Irish Grammar – A surreal example of mistakenly typesetting a book.
Assimil – Using Spanish- A unique journey into a new version of English that doesn’t correspond to any known dialect.
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Cainntear
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Re: Zygon Machine Learning [Languages]: Flashing Lights, Hypnotism?

Postby Cainntear » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:42 am

Speakeasy wrote:Youthful cynicism is based on reading about someone else’s follies, it’s no more valid than Monday morning Quarterbacking. Real cynicism, the kind that you earn, the kind that you can proudly wear on your chest, is based on an accumulation of bad experiences viewed in the light of serious afterthought; it is also the kind that youth casts aside as the pessimism of ageing.

I'll take that as a compliment. I'm nowhere near as youthful as I was in my youth!

leosmith wrote:
Cainntear wrote:All the meditation apps I've seen so far use peaceful, ambient environments, and mostly natural scenes at that.

Headspace uses this molten light meditation for loving kindness of all things. Scared the heck out of me; I kept on imagining the ring dissolving into the lava in Mt. Doom :lol:

I did not know that. I'll maybe have to look into whether there's some real science here after all, or if it's just new agey stuff.
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