Are you a happy B2?

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leosmith
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Re: Are you a happy B2?

Postby leosmith » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:20 pm

GrayM wrote:I have many LEP customers that choose to deal with me when they could easily go down the road and/or buy from a native speaker at my company, but they choose to deal with me.

I had to google LEP - does that mean I'm a member of that group? :lol:
Limited English proficiency (LEP) is a term used in the United States that refers to a person who is not fluent in the English language, often because it is not their native language. ... The definition of "limited English proficiency" varies between states and within state districts.
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Re: Are you a happy B2?

Postby GrayM » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:50 am

No Leosmith, that probably means I used an unnecessary abbreviation where I shouldn’t have!
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Re: Are you a happy B2?

Postby javier_getafe » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:21 pm

leosmith wrote:
GrayM wrote:I have many LEP customers that choose to deal with me when they could easily go down the road and/or buy from a native speaker at my company, but they choose to deal with me.

I had to google LEP - does that mean I'm a member of that group? :lol:
Limited English proficiency (LEP) is a term used in the United States that refers to a person who is not fluent in the English language, often because it is not their native language. ... The definition of "limited English proficiency" varies between states and within state districts.


First time for me too. However, I am certainly a LEP. :lol: or even worse :cry:
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Re: Are you a happy B2?

Postby Tristano » Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:07 am

Cool, I'm a lep (pronounced in the Italian way) 8-)
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Re: Are you a happy B2?

Postby Theodisce » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:30 am

javier_getafe wrote:
leosmith wrote:
GrayM wrote:I have many LEP customers that choose to deal with me when they could easily go down the road and/or buy from a native speaker at my company, but they choose to deal with me.

I had to google LEP - does that mean I'm a member of that group? :lol:
Limited English proficiency (LEP) is a term used in the United States that refers to a person who is not fluent in the English language, often because it is not their native language. ... The definition of "limited English proficiency" varies between states and within state districts.


First time for me too. However, I am certainly a LEP. :lol: or even worse :cry:


I guess LEP and similar concepts only make sense in an environment where the limited proficiency in a (de facto) official language can make your life harder. It's the same with German in Germany, Italian in Italy etc.
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Re: Are you a happy B2?

Postby pomme-manzana » Mon Nov 27, 2023 5:57 pm

I feel like an impostor B2, when I overhear french tourists on the street I can barely understand anything. :(
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Re: Are you a happy B2?

Postby tacerto1018 » Wed Jan 17, 2024 3:54 pm

Lianne wrote:For future additional languages, I can see being happy with B2, because I know it's hard to get multiple languages higher than that, especially when you don't have opportunities to use the language regularly, and there are diminishing returns. So as I get to my future language plans in Italian, Swedish, and continuing with ASL, I'll more likely be satisfied with B2.

Not with French, though. I won't be satisfied with French until I'm at least C2. My goal with French is to be fully fluent in my local dialect.



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Re: Are you a happy B2?

Postby jeffers » Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:17 am

One thing that I think has been slightly glossed over is what the level definitions actually mean. Part of the definitions of B2 and above include the ability to handle technical language. The official definition of C2 is:
  • Can understand a wide range of demanding, longer clauses and recognise implicit meaning.
  • Can express ideas fluently and spontaneously without much obvious searching for expressions.
  • Can use language flexibly and effectively for social, academic and professional purposes.
  • Can produce clear, well-structured, detailed text on complex subjects, showing controlled use of organisational patterns, connectors and cohesive devices.


Interestingly, part of the B2 definition is more specific than C1 about this:
Can understand the main ideas of complex text on both concrete and abstract topics, including technical discussions in their field of specialisation.



We often think of language levels in terms of increasing proficiency in the four skills (reading, writing, speaking, listening), but the CEFR levels are not only about this. I would suggest that the majority of native speakers would struggle to pass a C level exam in their own language, although they will be more fluent than a non-native C1.

The C2 description, however, doesn't even mention technical language. I guess they reckon people will have passed the previous exams, so at this point they can leave technical issues aside and focus on pure proficiency. I remember Cavesa or someone mentioning they found the C2 exam easier than C1, and I would expect that this might be at least part of the reason.

So for myself, I would like to get to B1-B2 with my languages, and then I would like to continue to become a better B1, but I don't expect to actually achieve the technical knowledge described in B2 and C1.


For reference, I used the descriptors on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages?scrlybrkr=91f0a7d7), but the official descriptors have a much longer list of "can do's" for each level.
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Re: Are you a happy B2?

Postby Cainntear » Thu Jan 18, 2024 2:39 pm

I was happy b4, but not so sure now... :lol:

jeffers wrote:One thing that I think has been slightly glossed over is what the level definitions actually mean. Part of the definitions of B2 and above include the ability to handle technical language.

Yes, I seem to remember reading someone quite credible commenting that following a strict reading of the CEFR descriptors, the average native speaker wouldn't be more than a B2.

Not sure whether I'm building on that out recalling his own argument, but I think he'd argued (given that the scale was sequential and C1 comes after B2) it was kind of nonsensical that there were people being classed as C1 that would struggle in settings where a supermarket shelf-stacker* would function effortlessly.
(* the job I could think of with the least expert technical jargon).or perhaps "paradoxical" would be a better word.
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Re: Are you a happy B2?

Postby Khayyam » Fri Jan 19, 2024 5:45 am

I don't usually think in terms of the language merit-badge system, whatever it's called, but I'm mostly happy with being able to read and listen to languages but not speak or write in them (much). The main thing driving me is FOMO if I don't look through as many cultural windows as possible (it's a kind of piggish greed, actually--it's a problem), so once I'm pretty good at the receptive side, I get antsy and move on.

I guess one way of motivating myself to be more well-rounded would be to buy a plane ticket to Tehran six months in advance. Those would be six months of very focused learning of active Persian, I'm sure.
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