Best utilizing L2 television -- 1x or 2x

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LessPaul
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Best utilizing L2 television -- 1x or 2x

Postby LessPaul » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:19 pm

I am trying to decide which of the following methods would be most efficient when watching videos (In my case, German television) with subtitles:

1) Watch video without subtitles. Watch 2nd time with L2 subtitles to fill in holes.
2) Watch video with L2 subtitles. Move on to another video.

Yes, there is indeed the option to simply _not_ use subtitles but this tends to lead to me getting very frustrated and thus don't enjoy the show when there are too many missing pieces. This is intended to be a means of adding a learning resource, while doing something enjoyable at the same time.

It would be interesting to hear the various thoughts on the question.
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sporedandroid
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Re: Best utilizing L2 television -- 1x or 2x

Postby sporedandroid » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:38 pm

Since I’m still a beginner I like to watch the first time with subtitles and look up all the words I don’t know. The second time I just watch and relax. Right now this is the method that frustrates me the least, but I’m sure my preference will change when I’m no longer a beginner.
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Re: Best utilizing L2 television -- 1x or 2x

Postby dicentra8 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:19 pm

When it comes to subtitles, in my opinion, there's two things to pay attention to

1 - your native language (the language you feel the most confortable with). Subtitles are aids to the audio you're hearing, so I think that first they should always be in the language you feel the most confortable with (that you can read them in 2~3 seconds and you're still able to follow most of what you're hearing). Otherwise it will be as frustrating as watching something without any subtitles. What usually happens is that a person ends up losing time reading the whole subtitle and miss what they're hearing (even if the subtitle is in the same language as the audio). Or, it might give the person this feeling that they're following/understanding everything very easily, but the second they try to remove the subtitles they get all lost and frustrated.

2 - how much are you used to the usage of subtitles?
This is a habit acquired over time. If you never got used to subtitles being there, it'll take some time until you can read them or ignore them, and still follow what you're hearing.

My advice would be:
- if you still struggle with following/reading a subtitle in L2 while watching something, try to use the language you're the most confortable with. At least until you feel you can move on and try subtitles in the L2. You can occasionally check if it's already fine to use the L2 subtitle.

- if you're fine with L2 subtitles, then maybe the first option you mentioned could work well (as long as you learn - get something out of it, and at the same time it's still enjoyable to you). Personally I would prefer to fill the holes and understand at least something (even if it's just a tiny thing!) rather than watch something without any help, have no clue what was going on, and then just move on. But maybe, if it was me, I would start with watching it using L2 subtitles and then watch the video again without them. It really depends on what kind of video you're watching, how much about that theme you know and understand in the language you're learning.
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Re: Best utilizing L2 television -- 1x or 2x

Postby StringerBell » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:33 pm

There don't ever seem to be subtitles that are even close to being accurate for anything in Italian, so what I did was:

-watch episode in Italian (L2) with English subs to understand what characters are saying
-watch the same episode in Italian (L2) with no subs to just focus on what they were saying in Italian.

I did this for 200 episodes of a dubbed series and it worked pretty well, so my vote is for this strategy. By episode ~150, I didn't really need to watch the first time with English subs, but I continued doing the same thing for the sake of continuity.

If I'd had access to accurate subs in Italian (L2), I would have done:
1) watch episode in Italian with English subs
2) watch same episode in Italian with Italian subs
3) watch same episode in Italian without subs

*I might wait to do #3 after finishing a whole season or series to avoid the boredom of watching the same episode 3x in a row. Somehow, watching 2x in a row never seemed too bad.
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Re: Best utilizing L2 television -- 1x or 2x

Postby Iversen » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:07 pm

First I would have to switch the sound on...
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Re: Best utilizing L2 television -- 1x or 2x

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:49 am

StringerBell wrote:If I'd had access to accurate subs in Italian (L2), I would have done:
1) watch episode in Italian with English subs
2) watch same episode in Italian with Italian subs
3) watch same episode in Italian without subs

*I might wait to do #3 after finishing a whole season or series to avoid the boredom of watching the same episode 3x in a row. Somehow, watching 2x in a row never seemed too bad.


I think this is a decent formula for beginner and intermediate levels. From mid-intermediate to advanced, I think the reverse would apply better.

Listening without subs would train your ear. A second round with same language subs would fill in unknown words/expressions. A third watch/listen with subs in one’s L1 would be optional, but hopefully not usually required.
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Re: Best utilizing L2 television -- 1x or 2x

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:53 am

I try to do without, then L2 subtitles. If I can't get 90%+ and that isn't sufficient then ... without, L1 (for comprehension), L2.

But the content has to be engaging. Otherwise I move on.
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Re: Best utilizing L2 television -- 1x or 2x

Postby Kraut » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:20 pm

Before LingoPlayer
https://oaprograms.github.io/lingo-player/
lost its Google functionality (translation of subs plus audio), it was the best learning tool to work with TV programs.
For that you first had to take the film to your computer and separate the subs.
It still has some useful functions.
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Re: Best utilizing L2 television -- 1x or 2x

Postby golyplot » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:00 pm

I'm not sure what is most effective, but I usually watch things without subtitles, and then rewatch any bits I had trouble understanding with L1 subtitles. Sometimes I'll use L2 subtitles for that instead, if they are available and accurate (but this is often not the case).
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Re: Best utilizing L2 television -- 1x or 2x

Postby dicentra8 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:39 pm

Kraut wrote:Before LingoPlayer
https://oaprograms.github.io/lingo-player/
lost its Google functionality (translation of subs plus audio), it was the best learning tool to work with TV programs.
For that you first had to take the film to your computer and separate the subs.
It still has some useful functions.

Agree! It still makes me sad that the Google functionality doesn't work anymore. But it's still, to me, one of the simplest software that allows the use of two different subtitles at the same time while watching a video, and that's why I still keep it.
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