would these materials cover most of the vocabulary and grammar of the 4 volumes of FSI?

[USF_Fan]

I am currently using both Pimsleur levels 1-5 and the Berlitz Self Teacher and about 1/3 of the way with both of them and making nice steady progress. I really enjoy working with these courses, however, after looking through the book, and reading through this forum about Pimsleur, it is unlikely that either course goes beyond A1. On top of that, one is strictly an all reading course, and the other an all audio course. It would be beneficial to have an audio-lingual course and a course that goes into the A2-B1 range. Living Language Ultimate: Beginner-Intermediate is available at my Library and the course seems to be pretty in depth. I have compared both Assimil and Living Language and I really like Living Languages outline more. The audio for Living language also appears to be closer to conversational speed more so than Assimil, and the notes and grammar appears to explained much more clearly.


I absolutely want to complete FSI, as I think the automaticity and grammar drilling would be incredibly beneficial. I would like to have some sufficient preparation for all 4 volumes though. I am not sure if these 3 courses would be enough. I wold like to ask those who have done this long before me what their advice and opinion would be regarding these materials in comparison to FSI vocabulary and grammar. I always hear how incredible Assimil is, but I find more enjoyment with these other 3 courses.

I definitely want to complete both the both the Berlitz Self Teacher and Pimsleur 1-5, but would like an audio-lingual course in the A2-B1 range as well to help prepare for what the FSI brings.


Would Living Language Ultimate: Beginner-Intermediate, Pimsleur 1-5, and the Berlitz Self Teacher be sufficient preparation for the vocabulary and grammar covered in all 4 volumes of the FSI? I would greatly appreciate any and all advice.

[Speakeasy]

It seems to me that this survey contains an unstated, false assumption to the effect that the FSI courses are too difficult to be attempted on their own and that using them requires the successful completion of a prerequisite, such as Pimsleur, Assimil, and the like. I am of the opinion that no such prerequisites are required.

Having used all of the Pimsleur courses for all of the languages that I have studied, I have come to the conclusion that even the most extensive Pimsleur courses – that is, those which presently terminate at Level V – cover a “selection” of the frequently-occurring elements of the L2’s structure and that, while some of these elements are introduced either at the end of a CEFR A2 course or somewhere within a CEFR B1 course, there are many “structural gaps” in the full, five-level Pimsleur programmes. Given the manner by which the target language’s structure is treated in the Pimsleur Method, I find it difficult to assign the programme a hard-and-fast assessment. Are “some” A2 elements included? Yes. Does this mean that the programme is equivalent to one which is broadly recognized as covering all the A2 structural issues? No, not even close. Does the Pimsleur programme cover all of the structural elements which are addressed in an FSI course? Not by a very wide margin! Would the Pimsleur courses cover most of the vocabularly that is used in a corresponding FSI Basic course? Is this a serious question???!!! Would completion of the Pimsleur programme be “sufficient preparation” for tackling an FSI course? False question, no preparation is necessary.

Having used all of the Assimil courses (1st and 2nd stages, where these exist) for all of the languages that I have studied, I would say that the Assimil courses come close to, but do not match, the corresponding FSI courses in terms of treatment/coverage the L2’s structure. That is, the FSI courses are more comprehensive than the latter and they deal with matters which are either not encountered in the Assimil courses or such matters receive only a passing glance in Assimil. Would the Assimil 1st stage course cover most of the vocabularly that is used in a corresponding FSI Basic course? There would be “some” similarities and “some” differences; however, I believe that the FSI Basic courses (putting out-dated items of vocabulary aside) would be more complete. Would completion of the Assimil courses (1st stage, 2nd stage, or both) be “sufficient preparation” for tackling an FSI course? False question, no preparation is necessary.

Ditto for most other reasonably comprehensive introductory-through-lower-intermediate language courses designed for home-study.

Given my position on the above issues, I find myself unable to choose any of the options in this survey.

Without wishing to appear mean or harsh, I find that this type of question has been discussed to exhaustion in the LLORG and the HTLAL.

[MorkTheFiddle]

Maybe I missed something, but which language are we talking about here?

[iguanamon]

...I absolutely want to complete FSI, as I think the automaticity and grammar drilling would be incredibly beneficial. I would like to have some sufficient preparation for all 4 volumes though. I am not sure if these 3 courses would be enough. I wold like to ask those who have done this long before me what their advice and opinion would be regarding these materials in comparison to FSI vocabulary and grammar. I always hear how incredible Assimil is, but I find more enjoyment with these other 3 courses.
I definitely want to complete both the both the Berlitz Self Teacher and Pimsleur 1-5, but would like an audio-lingual course in the A2-B1 range as well to help prepare for what the FSI brings. ...

In your last topic I mostly addressed your questions in my response.
To make it perhaps more clear, it's not abut replacing FSI grammar and vocabulary. The main reason to do FSI is the grammar drills which help to make the grammar an automatic production in your language skills.

Nobody must do the FSI course. People can and do learn Spanish everyday without ever using the course. As Speakeasy says, "no prerequisites are required". Still, some learners find the bare bones no nonsense FSI grammar drills to be anathema to their souls, and I get that. The courses you have chosen will help to give you a foundation in your Spanish, but at some point, you will have to move on from courses...

Self-learners need to be consistent and persistent in their learning. Consistency and persistence are key. Also, I don't think beginners should be overwhelmed. The learning materials may be the best available on the planet, but if a learner is not motivated to use them or is overwhelmed by them, then obviously, no matter how good they may be, they are not the best materials for them (at least at that point). So, yes, whatever course you can do that you will actually complete and will motivate you to finish is what you should do. Later, after you've finished whatever course, you can come back to FSI and it will help broaden and deepen your knowledge of the basics of Spanish. Along the way, you can puzzle out some short native text- again, not taking on too much (work on a song or a short Aesop's fable- a paragraph or two, for example), maybe you could should watch Destinos along with your doing Berlitz/Cortina as part of a multi-track approach. ¡Suerte!

I stand by this. Just because a course is highly recommended here, that doesn't mean that it is right for everyone. Assimil is highly recommended here but I have learned all my prior learned languages without using it. I have been using Assimil courses for Catalan, and I have my issues with the method. It is not for everybody. Other members here swear by it. Some members can't stand Pimsleur. Most people here probably haven't tried the old Berlitz self-teacher courses. They are decent enough and should help to provide enough of a foundation to get you going with working with native-materials. Pimsleur will complement Berlitz well. You will still have much more to learn after completing these courses. That learning just keeps going on even after reaching C2. There is always more to learn.

To sum up: Generally speaking, and as I have said, any reasonably competent course that motivates you to complete it is better than any course you won't complete no matter how good it may be. Will you be able to "replace" FSI with these courses? No... because you're talking apples and oranges, and that doesn't matter. FSI's main thrust is drills. Most other courses don't use this audiolingual method of learning. You do not have to do either FSI or Assimil to learn Spanish well enough to start using it to speak and work with native materials. How much work you do with Spanish is dependent upon what you want to do with Spanish and there are many resources available to Spanish-learners besides FSI and Assimil.

My advice to you is to keep doing what you are motivated to complete and after finishing your courses evaluate your skills. Then, you will know what you will need to work on in order to improve. You may want to come back and use FSI. If you do, you don't have to start at the beginning. You can jump in where you feel you need/want to jump in... or not. There are many ways to learn grammar and make it automatic- speaking with natives, writing, reading, listening, studying grammar topics as they arise, etc. Just learn Spanish. Try to get a good foundation and you will be ok. As long as your desire and motivation to improve and learn is there, you will find a way to make it happen. Have a look at my signature post.

[Brun Ugle]

I used both FSI courses, Basic and Programmatic, for Spanish. When I tried starting with the Basic course, I did indeed find it too difficult without some preparation. So, I started with the Programmatic course. The Programmatic course very much spoon-feeds the learner. You might find the beginning parts incredibly slow, but I give them credit for my reasonably good accent and frequently recommend them.

I worked my way slowly through both courses, starting with the Programmatic and overlapping both courses when I reached the second volume of the Programmatic course. I also watched videos for learners (“Destinos” and “Extr@“) and worked through some other materials at the same time to break the monotony and help with listening comprehension, vocabulary, etc. For the last couple of years, I haven’t worked on my Spanish much beyond watching massive amounts of TV and reading the occasional novel, but I’d say I have a pretty solid B2 level at this point and now I’m ready to hit the books again and have started working my way slowly through a C1 textbook. I’d give FSI most of the credit for my pronunciation and grammar skills. It doesn’t take you very far in terms of vocabulary since they intentionally use a limited vocabulary in order to facilitate drilling. But you can get vocabulary from other materials and from reading and listening.

[Cainntear]

I can't really address the big question, but I'll point out that FSI and DLI materials are not a complete course -- they're a component of something bigger.

As such, you'd probably get more out of doing them alongside something like Assimil than separately from it.

I'm not sure how well it meshes with Pimsleur, which is essentially a variation on the audiolingual approach that relies much more heavily on phrases than the original US army audiolingual approach, which has a lot more grammar focus. Assimil is at least approaching language from a notably different direction, so potentially fills some of the holes in the FSI course.