What are your favourite "detail-oriented" language learning techniques?

[ryanheise]

I always enjoy listening to successful language learners share their methods, experience and insights, and often the most useful advice does not relate to the big picture "system" or "method" that they use, but rather with the small, practical techniques that they use.

For example, Glossika at the "system" level is spaced repetition system, but if you look at all of the language learning techniques Michael would have used himself, they surely go beyond the system. For example, in his old deleted YouTube channel, I remember him saying that he likes to practice generating variations on sentence patterns, e.g. he would like to practice outputting sentences like "[some person] does [something] to [someone] at [sometime]" and then switching in different subjects, different verbs, different times, different tenses, etc.

Stuart Jay Raj said one thing he likes to do to break the foreigner wall and discover the true native language is to talk to native person #1 and take one native expression they said to you and then go to native person #2 and use that expression on them. This will elicit another very natural response which you can then take and regurgitate when talking again to person #1, and the cycle repeats. The idea is that if you speak using textbook phrases, the native speaker will recognise that you're a learner and will artificially modify their language to cater for you, which you don't want if you want to discover the true language.

Richard Simcott said that the reason he's probably so good at pronunciation is that growing up he always liked trying to imitate different English accents and world accents, and one fun game he likes to play is to try to speak in foreign language #1 using an accent from foreign language #2.

And there are tonnes of techniques, tips and tricks that successful language learners have.

These techniques, tips and tricks could also really be independent of a system, and I have a feeling that they might make a bigger difference to language learning success than the system itself.

Do you have any favourite techniques like this?

[AnthonyLauder]

It seems that all of those things you mentioned have something in common: they are "playing" with language, rather than just studying or using it.

[ryanheise]

That's true, I didn't notice that! I can also include a non-playful example since I think the scope may be even wider.

For example, Steve Kaufmann also has a system, but I would say at the detail-oriented level one thing that may be more important than any system is his suggestion that you need to work on your ability to notice things in the language. The idea being that if you just read the explanation of some language aspect in a book without having naturally noticed it yourself, it may go over your head or it just won't necessarily sink in. Whereas if you've actually noticed the thing in the language yourself (because you actually try to notice things), then it will sink in. I'd then imagine if two learners tried to use the system, then it's the one who puts effort into this particular detail who is going to be more successful, and I also think this detail transcends the system itself in that you could use it no matter what system you were using.

[AnthonyLauder]

That's true, I didn't notice that! I can also include a non-playful example since I think the scope may be even wider.

For example, Steve Kaufmann also has a system, but I would say at the detail-oriented level one thing that may be more important than any system is his suggestion that you need to work on your ability to notice things in the language. The idea being that if you just read the explanation of some language aspect in a book without having naturally noticed it yourself, it may go over your head or it just won't necessarily sink in. Whereas if you've actually noticed the thing in the language yourself (because you actually try to notice things), then it will sink in. I'd then imagine if two learners tried to use the system, then it's the one who puts effort into this particular detail who is going to be more successful, and I also think this detail transcends the system itself in that you could use it no matter what system you were using.

I agree completely about noticing things. This is less a technique, though, than a skill. At the first polyglot conference in Budapest, I gave a presentation about the three skills that polyglots have and that poor language learners lack: "noticing; processing; and guessing". These skills can, it turns out, be developed, butwithout them language learning will always be very difficult.

[Random Review]

It seems that all of those things you mentioned have something in common: they are "playing" with language, rather than just studying or using it.

This is a really, really important point and I'm surprised it only got 3 likes so far.. As an EFL teacher, I can absolutely tell you that the really stand-out students all definitely play with the language. This applies to the adult professionals I taught in Spain just as much as the kids I have taught in China and Indonesia.

I can't prove which way the causal arrow points, but my unproven hunch is that it is both ways.

"Fluency practice" is a big thing in EFL (I'm not a fan of this*), but I have seen loads and loads of students that chatter away fluently in bad English and never seem to get any better. I can't think of a single one of these who actually plays with the language in any real way.

But how do you elicit that?


* Not because I think it's unimportant, it's absolutely vital; rather, because I think with things like Skype, the classroom has now become a comparatively inefficient place to get it.

[Iversen]

I divide my activities into two groups: extensive ones and intensive ones. The intensive ones are all unabashedly detail oriented - like doing wordlists, copying passages from texts to squeeze out every bit of information and studying grammar. The extensive ones are by definition globally oriented since the point here isn't really to add new pieces of information, but instead to train my ability to use the things I already know - or in other words: training my ability to perouse texts or listen to speech without caring too much about a few missing words or an opaque construction here and there, and also to be able to write and speak without looking words up all the time or being scared to death about a few petty errors.

And my writings here should be enough to prove that I'm fond of experiments and wordplays - even in languages where I may not yet be skilled enough to pull them off succesfully. It's more important to have fun than it is to write flawless texts.

[ryanheise]

I agree completely about noticing things. This is less a technique, though, than a skill. At the first polyglot conference in Budapest, I gave a presentation about the three skills that polyglots have and that poor language learners lack: "noticing; processing; and guessing". These skills can, it turns out, be developed, butwithout them language learning will always be very difficult.

I just finished watching it (this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X7XTui58Qs), what an amazing and entertaining talk!

I think your talk hits on the same premise which is that these "low level" techniques, or maybe skills, may be more crucial than choosing the best system or method, and it's these practical low level techniques, skills, tips, etc. that I hope people can share more of.

By the way, I recently read somewhere that people spend too much time reading books (or watching videos) about a topic without actually putting any of it into practice, and that a better approach is to always read a book with the aim of finding 3 practical ideas that you can implement, then stop reading and implement them. Fortunately, your video presented 3 very clear ideas, so I know what I need to do next I'm particularly interested to try improving my short term memory by practicing recalling sentences just after I've read them or listened to them.

P.S. Although I'm presently interested in these low level techniques or skills, I don't mean to imply that high level systems and methods are useless, but rather that the low level details may be the keys to making whatever system or approach you use work better.

[Inst]

It seems that all of those things you mentioned have something in common: they are "playing" with language, rather than just studying or using it.

This is a really, really important point and I'm surprised it only got 3 likes so far.. As an EFL teacher, I can absolutely tell you that the really stand-out students all definitely play with the language. This applies to the adult professionals I taught in Spain just as much as the kids I have taught in China and Indonesia.

I can't prove which way the causal arrow points, but my unproven hunch is that it is both ways.

"Fluency practice" is a big thing in EFL (I'm not a fan of this*), but I have seen loads and loads of students that chatter away fluently in bad English and never seem to get any better. I can't think of a single one of these who actually plays with the language in any real way.

But how do you elicit that?


* Not because I think it's unimportant, it's absolutely vital; rather, because I think with things like Skype, the classroom has now become a comparatively inefficient place to get it.

In the Archery community, people say practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. i.e, what people are doing when they chatter away fluently in bad English is that they're consolidating their habits of bad English. Deliberate practice is the antonym, it's "hard" because it requires active concentration on what people are doing, and where they're doing wrong. In the case of language learning, often Dunning-Kruger comes into play and people need intervention from teachers and tutors to point out what their most common mistakes are and what they should correct.

[Tristano]

I don't know if I can consider myself as a successfull language learner. If I see the highest degree of fluency I achieved in any language I would say not (I can't read classic literature with high competency or write essays with formal academic language). If I look at a world map and see in how many countries I can start working using their language tomorrow or with just a month of preparation, and compare that with the average Joe, I can say yes hands down.

So let's pretend I am, since I'm a lazy person and I already made the effort to write this message till now.

When I first started as a polyglot wannabe, I discovered SRS and flash cards and thought I discovered the holy graal of the language learning.
So I started studying endless lists of words. In multiple languages. Forgot everything, or big part of it. That because the words are not in context and are empty of meaning. So I started to study whole sentences instead. It comes out that certain words can have multiple meanings. And that others don't have any meaning alone (think about words like "even" in Dutch, or how words like "maar" or "mal" are used in German besides their direct translations. The sentence as a unity helps understanding how the language works, when you read/listened to a lot of them.
And allows you being able to understand and produce new sentences because you internalize the structures.

I did it only once, for Dutch, but producing multiple variations of multiple structures really helped me learning the word order (and I sure it helps a lot also with verb tenses and noun cases). Something like:

I arrived late because my alarm clock didn't work.
I arrived late because I missed the train.
I missed the train because my alarm clock didn't work.
Because my alarm clock didn't work, I missed the train, so I arrived late.

I eat the apple.
I like to apples.
I like to eat apples.
I like to eat apples every day.
I like to eat an apple per day.
I like to eat an apple per day because it keeps the doctor away.
I like apples but I prefer pears.
Even though I like apples, I prefer pears.

... well you get an idea. Write some thousands of these sentences and I'm pretty sure you learn the grammar very well.
Only... das ist sehr langweilig

[rdearman]

Write some thousands of these sentences and I'm pretty sure you learn the grammar very well.

Who corrected you?