untrained+unexperienced Brits get preferential job treatment in Spain

[Kraut]

https://www.elconfidencial.com/alma-cor ... o_1601072/

When they go for job interviews, they find academies or individuals who look only at their country of birth and not at the training and experience of their curriculum

Los pedagogos coinciden en que aprender con un nativo sin formación en enseñanza no es buena opción.
La obsesión por los profesores nativos: "Nací en Sevilla y tengo que decir que soy inglesa"
Cuando acuden a entrevistas de trabajo, se encuentran con academias o particulares que se fijan solo en su país de nacimiento y no en la formación y experiencia de su currículo

[Speakeasy]

Regrettably, this is yet another example of the “native speaker is (de facto) more qualified” syndrome which, contrary to a common perception, is not confined to the realm of non-native-speaking versus native-speaking ESL teachers. Going further, I would not be surprised to learn that this prejudice in hiring practices would favour British candidates over native English speakers from Canada, Australia, and the United States.

My wife and her best friend, both of whom are Québécoises “pure laine”, who have completed a B.A. in English-French translation and who have worked as professional translators, have lost out in employment competitions to French immigrants whose studies terminated at the lycée level. There is a perception, even amongst many Québécois employers, that native speakers of “real French” (as opposed to “colonial French”) are automatically better English-French translators than qualified Québécois applicants despite the former's limited grasp of English and an absence of formal training in the field of translation.

Although my own studies of French date back several decades, I do recall that both of my high school French teachers were non-native speakers of the language. Nevertheless, in both cases, they were superb at explaining the nuances of grammar and pronunciation.

[aokoye]

Regrettably, this is yet another example of the “native speaker is (de facto) more qualified” syndrome which, contrary to a common perception, is not confined to the realm of non-native-speaking versus native-speaking ESL teachers. Going further, I would not be surprised to learn that this prejudice in hiring practices would favour British candidates over native English speakers from Canada, Australia, and the United States.

Yep - it's called native speaker privilege. A lot of people that I know abhor the practice (including people who are in the position to take advantage of it) and there's at least some work being done to try to counter it. You also see this in the context of the teaching of other languages, both in foreign/second language contexts and in the context of international schools. Preferring native speakers of X language in the context of other job positions that aren't directly related to language teaching is different but similar. It falls under the heading of discrimination on the basis of language, but it often looks very different.

[Speakeasy]

Yep - it's called native speaker privilege … It falls under the heading of discrimination on the basis of language, but it often looks very different.

(in response to comments from eido that some U.S. employers specify either “native” Spanish speakers or non-native speakers possessing a “native-like accent”)
I will reiterate my opinion that:
(a) the chances of developing a “true native-like accent” (that is, one which would truly dupe native-speakers into believing that you are “one of them”) as an adult second-language learner are very slim, indeed,
(b) a person’s accent, native or otherwise, is a very poor criterion for evaluating the multiple facets which make up an individual. It does not, or at least it should not, matter.
(c) in the absence of genuine, demonstrably rational, ethical, justifiable and provable reasons for requiring that candidates for a given job possess a “native-like-accent” in a second language unfairly deprives many would-be applicants of gainful employment for which they might otherwise be fully qualified, and
(d) any employer who chooses to establish such a narrow employee-selection criterion, without a very sound basis for doing so, is likely to deprive themselves of some very good candidates and that, in the long run, they do so at their own peril.

Improvements in the situation will likely come slowly and they will probably be the result of hard-fought battles.

[aokoye]

Yep - it's called native speaker privilege … It falls under the heading of discrimination on the basis of language, but it often looks very different.

(in response to comments from eido that some U.S. employers specify either “native” Spanish speakers or non-native speakers possessing a “native-like accent”)
I will reiterate my opinion that:
(a) the chances of developing a “true native-like accent” (that is, one which would truly dupe native-speakers into believing that you are “one of them”) as an adult second-language learner are very slim, indeed,
(b) a person’s accent, native or otherwise, is a very poor criterion for evaluating the multiple facets which make up an individual. It does not, or at least it should not, matter.
(c) in the absence of genuine, demonstrably rational, ethical, justifiable and provable reasons for requiring that candidates for a given job possess a “native-like-accent” in a second language unfairly deprives many would-be applicants of gainful employment for which they might otherwise be fully qualified, and
(d) any employer who chooses to establish such a narrow employee-selection criterion, without a very sound basis for doing so, is likely to deprive themselves of some very good candidates and that, in the long run, they do so at their own peril.

Improvements in the situation will likely come slowly and they will probably be the result of hard-fought battles.

Agreed. Change in contexts like these is typically slow and involves lots of small but meaningful actions. A friend's roommate described a similar situation as having to be like a woodpecker. Lots of little pecks.

[Cavesa]

very common in the czech republic. and the saddest part:nobody dares to question such "teachers", their methods, their students' results. the obsession with native teachers is especially common among well meaning parents with low foreign language skills. the failures aren the children's blame, not of that person who is just enjoying their expat life away from their failed original career, and is incapable. public schools are even less selective (including highschools)

yes, good non-natives lose opportunities. that is one of the consequences.

funnily, some was trying to argue on reddit (a month or two ago), that the english native privilege doesn't exist and the others are actually more privileged, because they get to practice their foreign language more easily

[Speakeasy]

I suggest that we try to keep things in perspective. Although I deplore unfair hiring practices, I believe that the “English native-speaker privilege” is not unique (and what an absolutely horrid expression this is!). For decades, the U.S. and Canadian federal government departments responsible for the language training of their personnel, as well as American and Canadian universities having strong language programmes, have privileged native speakers in their hiring practices. You don’t believe me? Take a look at the faculty of the language departments of the major universities. While it is likely that the DLI and the FSI use non-native speakers, they employ a great number of native speakers, as well.

[aokoye]

I suggest that we try to keep things in perspective. Although I deplore unfair hiring practices, I believe that the “English native-speaker privilege” is not unique (and what an absolutely horrid expression this is!). For decades, the U.S. and Canadian federal government departments responsible for the language training of their personnel, as well as American and Canadian universities having strong language programmes, have privileged native speakers in their hiring practices. You don’t believe me? Take a look at the faculty of the language departments of the major universities. While it is likely that the DLI and the FSI use non-native speakers, they employ a great number of native speakers, as well.

That's why I said, "native speaker privilege" without the added "English" qualifier and didn't actually refer to English language specific contexts. There are quite a lot of problems with the idea that being a native speaker of a language automatically makes you a better teacher of that language. That various universities favor hiring native speakers over non-native ones (which I would argue is a very useful distinction in most instances but that's for another thread) doesn't show that L1 speakers are better teachers.

Note, another term for this is native speakerism, though that is almost always used in the EFL/ESL context (and it is a very commonly used term). Adrian Holliday has written a lot on the topic (he may have coined the term).

[galaxyrocker]

not of that person who is just enjoying their expat life away from their failed original career

I'm not saying this isn't true for a lot (or even, perhaps, most), but there's also a lot of language teachers abroad who are passionate about teaching English and want to make that their career, even if they don't have the proper training for it (though they should probably be getting it!)

funnily, some was trying to argue on reddit (a month or two ago), that the english native privilege doesn't exist and the others are actually more privileged, because they get to practice their foreign language more easily

Aye, I remember that. Probably should've nipped that one in the bud, but it was hilarious watching him try to defend it. Solely because Duo didn't add more X language for Spanish speakers made him think that English learners were privileged. Ridiculous. Here's the thread for anyone interested

[Cavesa]

, have privileged native speakers in their hiring practices. You don’t believe me?

I totally believe you and I am not saying this is the wrong part. Wanting native teachers as a part of the teacher team (or to have just native teachers) is not illogical. It is definitely an asset to be a native. What I am criticising is hiring a person, who doesn't have the other needed qualities than being a native. Especially when it comes to beginners, a good non native teacher is simply a better choice. Later, the students should be more independent and more resistant to bad teaching, and also profit much more from a native. That's why university and the earlier schools are different.

But in either case, it is simply a problem, that the natives are often not judged properly on the rest of their training, experience, or personality qualities needed for the job. And when anyone complaining is basically told "they are native, so shut up".

Aye, I remember that. Probably should've nipped that one in the bud, but it was hilarious watching him try to defend it. Solely because Duo didn't add more X language for Spanish speakers made him think that English learners were privileged. Ridiculous. Here's the thread for anyone interested

Yes, such a privilege I get to practice a language I don't care about on Duo, and majority of my mistakes on Duolingo is due to English, not due to the real target language and it slows me down (and this is more of an issue for people with a lower level of English, or people who really don't need it at all and need the other language).

That person even tried to generalise their "point" and it was hilarious