Blind people and listening comprehension

General discussion about learning languages
User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6314

Blind people and listening comprehension

Postby sfuqua » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:34 am

Perhaps someone on the forum is blind and can correct me about this, but... I read some sources on the internet that suggested that blind people often use tts software at extremely high speed for "reading" and for using computers. I am completely ignorant about this.
Perhaps an L2 learner could continue to drive their acquisition to higher levels by training themselves to comprehend oral language at very high levels.

Has anybody done this? Do you know, or are you, a blind person who listens to audiobooks at 350 wpm?
1 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6314

Re: Blind people and listening comprehension

Postby sfuqua » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:00 am

0 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
aokoye
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1818
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:14 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Languages: English (N), German (~C1), French (Intermediate), Japanese (N4), Swedish (beginner), Dutch (A2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19262
x 3310
Contact:

Re: Blind people and listening comprehension

Postby aokoye » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:57 am

From the article:
Researchers from the Hertie Institute for Clinical Brain Research at the University of Tübingen in Germany have found scientific support for this belief. Blind people can easily comprehend speech that is sped up far beyond the maximum rate that sighted people can understand. When we speak rapidly we are verbalizing at about six syllables per second.


This doesn't surprise me as it is pretty well accepted that blind people by and large have better senses of hearing and touch than their sighted (and hearing) counterparts. I wish I had the book but there are a few chapters in Oliver Sacks' Musicophilia that talk about the fact that blind people (who don't speak tonal languages), both musicians and nonmusicians, are more likely to have perfect pitch than hearing people who don't speak tonal languages (I don't think he talked about blind people who speak tonal languages but I would assume nearly 100% of them have perfect pitch). He also mentioned a study that found that blind people (with and without perfect pitch) performed significantly better at tests that required differentiating which note was higher or lower when two notes were played in very fast succession.
2 x
Prefered gender pronouns: Masculine

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6314

Re: Blind people and listening comprehension

Postby sfuqua » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:06 am

The numbers are fantastic, however. What are the limits of a human brain?
I wonder how far one could get with a step by step attempt to increase one's level of listening comprehension.
I'm just surpised.
And humbled.
1 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
aokoye
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1818
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:14 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Languages: English (N), German (~C1), French (Intermediate), Japanese (N4), Swedish (beginner), Dutch (A2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19262
x 3310
Contact:

Re: Blind people and listening comprehension

Postby aokoye » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:21 am

I have no idea what the limits of the human brain are but I think what shouldn't be ignored is that we're talking about people whose brains have remodeled themselves because of a rather major deficit. Deficit isn't the right word because it sounds too much like it implies that blind people are somehow "less than" sighted people - that isn't what I'm trying to say. I mean, brains are pretty amazing, you can take out entire lobes of them (in the case of some people with intractable seizures) and have a person who is still able to function "normally" (although often after having had physical and/or occupational therapy). I don't think it's realistic to think that a sighted person can gain the aural acuity of a blind person, though I'd be interested in reading the contrary. Taking away the ability to see "frees up" a lot of energy (or perhaps neurons? synapses? I'm not a neurologist) for the brain to put into the enhancement of other senses and someone with all of their senses doesn't have that extra energy/space.
3 x
Prefered gender pronouns: Masculine

User avatar
Jar-Ptitsa
Brown Belt
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:13 pm
Location: London
Languages: Belgian French (N)

I can speak: Dutch, German, English, Spanish and understand Italian, Portuguese, Wallonian, Afrikaans, but not always correctly.
x 652

Re: Blind people and listening comprehension

Postby Jar-Ptitsa » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:25 pm

I think that aokoye is correct. between the age of 14 and 20 I was in a special school, and one difference with the normal school was that we had the choice to listen or read the things, mostly, and for sure the people who have chosen the listening all the time were mcuh quicker with the listening. but nobody was blind or something like this. And, they were quicker but only about double I think, not 6 times!!!! or maybe we were doubly slow than the average. I've chosen it sometimes but seldom, and generally I prefer to read the things.

But the blind people read as well, with their fingers, thereofre a different sense than us with the eyes, but nevertheless another one than the hearing. Therefore, i mean, that we all use two senses for the language we receive. For sure the blind people must have more sensitive feeling in the finger tips.

I ahve a friend who is deaf, but I don't know a blind person.
2 x
-w- I am Jar-ptitsa and my Hawaiian name is ʻā ʻaia. Please correct my mistakes in all the languages. Thank you very much.
: 1 / 50 Spanish grammar
: 5 / 50 Spanish vocabulary

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6314

Re: Blind people and listening comprehension

Postby sfuqua » Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:49 am

I have no idea if the guy at this link is smoking the wrong medicine, but it sounds cool:
https://www.turnkeylinux.org/blog/pract ... lification
0 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
astromule
Green Belt
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:51 am
Location: Argentina
Languages: Spanish (N), English (C2), French, Portuguese, Italian, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, German, Russian
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=794&start=240
x 281

Re: Blind people and listening comprehension

Postby astromule » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:04 am

I know it's not the same, but when I'm doing a listening only course (Pimsleur/Michel Thomas), I use a sleep mask, to focus on the sound only.
0 x

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6314

Re: Blind people and listening comprehension

Postby sfuqua » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:11 am

Off topic myself, but, I have learned so much about how to study from the last three years of study of Spanish. How much better I shadow if I move, what a waste of time it is to study intensively if I'm exhausted, how soothing study can be when you're mourning...
2 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6314

Re: Blind people and listening comprehension

Postby sfuqua » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:18 am

Has anybody had any luck pushing their reading speed by increasing the speed of a tts of the reading?
Has anybody tried pushing their reading comprehension by increase the speed of the tts or audiobook they are reading?
0 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...


Return to “General Language Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: alaart, firedude750, NantokaHito and 2 guests