Incomplete profiles

General discussion about learning languages
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iguanamon
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
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Location: Virgin Islands
Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
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Incomplete profiles

Postby iguanamon » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:11 am

Anonymity can be a very good thing in the internet age as more and more sites gather more and more personal information. I don't like to give out too much personal information online if I can avoid it, myself. That being said, one of the things I like about HTLAL is the profile capsule under the member's user name. There is a minimum amount of information that is very useful when replying to someone's post.
If we know where a poster is located, at least at a country level, that can be useful. If we know a poster's native language it can help provide better responses. If we know more about language levels, "speaks" vs "studies" was simple at HTLAL, that is useful as well. The capsule profile is not about bragging, it's about providing context to help others to better help a member.

On HTLAL, the members' profiles were clickable and would lead to a more detailed breakdown of a member's skills in a language. Of course, not everyone fills them out completely or updates them regularly. Still, it can be quite helpful and reduce detective work in trying to figure out context if it's there. I'd like to see something like that in any new site we may have.

As I said, I completely understand about not wanting to be totally free with information on the internet, but certain minimal information can still maintain anonymity and also help members to provide better responses to a member's questions and give better advice.
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iguanamon
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2353
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:14 am
Location: Virgin Islands
Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
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Re: Incomplete profiles

Postby iguanamon » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:55 pm

Here's an example from today's forum posts-

emk wrote:...Before we can answer your questions, it might help if you could clarify your level of French. In your profile, you have no native language listed, and your French is only marked as "B2." B2 means, roughly, "Speaks and understands a language well enough to struggle through a native high-school class with a lot of work." Or, in Montreal terms, it might mean "an anglophone who can do most things in French if they need to, but who isn't comfortable using French professionally." But above, you say that you learned French as a first language, and in another post, you mention that you're relearning English from scratch.

If your French is really only B2 Québecois French, and not native Québecois French, it may make a big difference in the advice people give you. B2 may not quite be high enough to move between Québecois French and Parisian French with ease. If you're only B2, and if you haven't watched a lot of movies from France, etc., then you may struggle with listening comprehension while in France, and you may not always be able to make yourself understood without a lot of work.
source I am not trying to embarrass the poster in question but merely to illustrate a point.

We can avoid having to qualify our responses so much and give better ones to people if we have more information to begin with from a member. I get that people are concerned with privacy and may feel uncomfortable or perhaps even shame in revealing their native language or country, but sharing such information may be critical in giving a member the advice they seek and for the member to receive good advice in return.
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AlexTG
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Posts: 299
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Location: Tasmania, Australia
Languages: Easy to Read: English(N), French, Spanish
Able to Read: German, Latin
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Re: Incomplete profiles

Postby AlexTG » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:10 pm

Maybe we could have "native languages" in a separate box all to themselves? That would nudge people a bit into giving them I think. And it might be more readable that way as well. Right now the native languages are blending in with all the others, but they're really a very different kettle of fish.
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dampingwire
Blue Belt
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Location: Abingdon, UK
Languages: Italian (N), English (N), French (poor, not studying), Japanese (studying, JLPT N3)
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Re: Incomplete profiles

Postby dampingwire » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:20 pm

I'd fill out a profile here if I knew where to go to do so. I've hunted around under User Content and Profile but nothing jumped out as being obvious. Clearly I'm being dense as many other people seem to have figured out how to add a list of languages ...
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Brun Ugle
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Location: Steinkjer, Norway
Languages: English (N), Norwegian (~C1/C2), Spanish (B1/B2), German (A2/B1?), Japanese (very rusty)
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Re: Incomplete profiles

Postby Brun Ugle » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:25 pm

Dampingwire, it doesn't let you fill it out until you've made three posts.

Iguanamon, I was not going to bother filling mine out until I was sure where the forum was going, but you made me feel guilty, so I filled it out.
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dampingwire
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Re: Incomplete profiles

Postby dampingwire » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:07 pm

Brun Ugle wrote:Dampingwire, it doesn't let you fill it out until you've made three posts.


Ah. Well this is two, so just one more to go.

Good to see you again BTW!
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tangleweeds
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Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
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beginner: Irish
clearing cobwebs: Japanese
on the shelf: French, Latin
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Re: Incomplete profiles

Postby tangleweeds » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:46 pm

It helps me lots when a person puts their native language(s) first in the list of languages they speak or learn, and clearly marks those as native.

Specifying current country of residence is so very helpful when a person's current country is not where they learned their native language, as this factor often influences their learning situation (e.g. immersed vs. studying from afar).

As in any linguistic situation, knowing the context always enhances understanding of what's being complicated. And misunderstandings of context can lead to much deeper miscommunications, and inadvertent offense made or taken.
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Serpent
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Re: Incomplete profiles

Postby Serpent » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:42 am

I suggested the following in this thread:


I hope we keep the feature with listing one's languages, although idk how useful the detailed profiles are, it seems like nobody checks them. And it would be great to have more categories than just speaks/studies. At least a comprehension-based category for passive-only languages, and when emk set up a temporary forum we were discussing listing self-assessed CEFR levels too (though I definitely think it shouldn't be the main/only way of indicating your level). In this sense I actually like how it's implemented at the polydog forum, although it would be great to have various kinds of criteria and just use the ones that fit. Most would only use a small number of categories, but those with many languages can break them up into groups. I mean categories like:

Native language:
Secondary native:
Heritage languages:
Advanced languages:
Written only:
Spoken only:
Passive only:
Reading only:
TV only:
Dead languages:
Conlangs:
Endangered/minority languages:
Current focus:
Long-term focus:
TAC languages:
SC languages:
Business knowledge:
Translation skills:
Travel knowledge:
Basic survival skills:
Recently started:
False beginner:
Plateau: *
Looking for exchange:
Can help with:
Corrections wanted:
Wanderlust:
Abandoned:

*(I'd rather avoid intermediate because it can mean anything from A2 to B2 to different people, AND it's really quite meaningless. I'm intermediate when I can watch football but not write, others use this term when they've completed a textbook and can write a bit but not understand TV)

Let me stress that the aim is to simplify it, for everyone to have some categories that are relevant. For example, I would list Latin as a dead language, but others who've studied it can list it as Written only or Translation skills or whatever. There's a lot of overlap, exactly so that everyone could choose what fits their situation better. Ideally the categories' content would be plain (or rich) text so that you could list any language and put the same one into several categories, or add any quick custom data like when you started.

Also, the current 256 characters limit is barely enough for me :lol:
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CarlyD
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Re: Incomplete profiles

Postby CarlyD » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:31 pm

I'd like if there were a place in Profile to show a statement--possibly like the list that Serpent posted, or just an "about me" type statement. I could list which languages fascinate me--that I might not ever be planning to learn (like Gottscheer) or what goals I have for a particular language.

Is that possible?
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neofight78
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Re: Incomplete profiles

Postby neofight78 » Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:09 pm

To me, it's going to be the law of diminishing returns. Obviously knowing what someone's native language is and what they are studying is going to pretty helpful quite often. The more you get in to other details the less often that information will be useful. Also I think simplicity has something to be said for it, people can be confused or overwhelmed by a large amount of choice. Giving a CEFR level or native category to each language makes a lot of sense. I like the idea of having a bio as well, great for those who want more detail, and it allows you 100% control over what you say.

I would also add, that if someone asks a question and you need more context, you can just ask. This is a discussion forum after all, I'm not sure we need to preempt anything other than most frequent questions. Besides, the more complicated you make it, the less likely people will fill out everything anyway.
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