How much work is a minor in Russian and how far will it take me in Russian?

[EthanH]

Hello everyone!

I committed to MSU to study Computer Science this upcoming fall. I love languages and want to study one so I can move there after college, preferably Russian. I do have previous experiences with languages as I am currently B1-B2 in Spanish and have self-studied Russian for a couple of months, sadly though I could not keep studying because of varsity sports and school but plan to pick it back up over the summer. For those of you who have studied Russian in college, how much work should I be expecting per week? So I can mentally prepare myself. Also how far would a minor in Russian take me in the language? B1-B2? Any answers are helpful, thank you so much!

[eido]

There are several other threads that are similar to this, I believe, on the forum that might answer your question. I believe there was one for Spanish.

What you can do is find MSU's (what school is this? There are a lot of schools with this acronym, but maybe you were intentionally vague) syllabus for studying. If you can't find that, look at their course catalog and read their course descriptions. If that's not enough, look at comparable schools and do one or both of the aforementioned steps. If that doesn't suit you, contact the department chair.

Then again, I'm not an expert at college and shooting off questions to people, so perhaps others more experienced in the area might be able to provide more information.

[EthanH]

Sorry MSU = Michigan State university

[MCK74]

IIRC I've seen the requirements for a Spanish minor and it's a few extra classes (like 3-4) from the required classes for a language requirement. If your major has a language requirement then it seems taking a few extra classes for a minor could be a good idea.

I agree with eido that your college probably has the requirements for a Russian minor listed somewhere online or in their course catalog.

As for what your level would be when you completed a minor in Russian - you would have a few extra classes from the prerequisite classes for a required language completed, but you would be several classes short of a major. From what I understand, a bachelor's degree in a language is about a B2, so you would be below that.

[Lawyer&Mom]

The difference between a major and a minor is usually some extra literature classes. You will still take all the classes that actually teach Russian. The thing is two years of language classes will only take you so far. It should give you a good foundation in the grammar, but you will still need lots and lots of massive input, and that just doesn’t happen in the classroom. Good news: you have the internet. Do massive input on your own, just like the Russian majors will have to do too.

Also, academic language study is trying to get you to read and analyze literature. I highly recommend supplementing your language diet with junk food. Comics, cartoons, romance novels, YA... Everything that is easier than “literature” that they will never assign as homework.

[Speakeasy]

EthanH, I do not wish to discourage you before you even start, but I believe that attaining a level of CEFR B2 in an “FSI Category 4” language, in a minor language programme, is a ferociously difficult task for the average person. Remember, we’re not talking about learning a second Romance language.

I am not saying that achieving a high-intermediate level -- in a reputedly very difficult language – is impossible. Rather, my concern is that the additional hours of study to achieve such a goal will have to come from somewhere. Are you willing, or even capable, of sacrificing the kind of time necessary to achieving a very difficult secondary goal in circumstances which might require greater attention to your major than you had originally allowed for?

In my view, even if you were to complete a minor in Russian, the probability of your having the time for the additional study necessary to bringing within CEFR B2 in all four levels of skill is not very high. I appreciate that my opinion might not be popular, but I do believe that it is reasonable. The best revenge would be to prove me wrong.

Afterthought: The Complacency Trap
You mentioned that you had self-studied Russian but did not mention the level you had achieved. As an afterthought, I thought that you might possibly benefit from one my own experiences. In my first year, I signed up for a series of courses in which I had previously acquired a sound knowledge of the basics. The requirement to repeat the introductory concepts and assignments led to feelings of boredom with the lectures and to a dangerous sense of complacency. As a result, I ceased paying attention to what was actually happening in the classroom and I failed to notice the pace at which the information was being presented. Quite naturally, there came a point where the new information out-stripped my own knowledge. Unfortunately, it had taken me about three weeks to notice the changes, leaving me three weeks behind the lectures, the assignments, and the rest of the class. Have you ever fallen three weeks behind in a university-level course? Yes, you can make up for the lost time … as long as it is not already taken up with studying a full programme and with a few unessential activities such as sleeping. Recovering from a three-week lag in an “FSI Category 4” university minor language programme is not impossible, but the chances of carrying off such a feat are slim. So then, should you ultimately decide to do a minor in Russian, I suggest that pay close attention during the otherwise initially-boring lectures and that you concentrate on every detail when preparing your assignments.

EDITED:
Addition of “Afterthought”

[EthanH]

Thank you very much for the responses! I guess I will have to continue self studying on the side.

[David1917]

In general the answer to any question like this is: it is as much work as you are willing to put into it, and how far it takes you is dependent on that. I tested into 300 level Russian when I started my bachelor's and was beyond the other kids in the program. Many of them had horrendous accents, could not formulate sentences properly, etc. Of course, most of that is on the professor as well, but what that means is - you make your own fate. You can do the bare minimum and "pass" or you can work your ass off and be good after.

I looked briefly at the requirements for MSU's Russian minor and I can say that it doesn't seem heavy on language requirements. In fact the only advanced language class I see after the 2nd year I&II sequence is RUS 311 - Advanced Oral Communication.

I'll present to you a few ideas, beginning with what I would do "if I knew then what I know now":

1) Study intensively this summer and the summer after your first year. Maintain during 1st year. Prepare to place into 311 your 2nd year. Plan one summer to be in an intensive at the advanced level (UVA, Middlebury, Indiana, Arizona) or, ideally, in Russia (you could even get some computer science credits, too). If you are feeling really ambitious, you could enroll into the Independent Study after this and do some sort of analysis of a Russian novel in the original with the guidance of the Russian professor. If you think long-term, I'm certain you can reach something like a B2 by the end of your four years.

2) Did you learn Spanish in high school and did you like the classroom method? Do you feel the accountability helps you, and other peoples' levels do not interfere with your own enjoyment/success? In that case I would try my damnedest to get into the 2nd year sequence in your first year, and then follow on as above. If you have then 3 semesters with this professor and the same group of students, you might also have the type of relationship to be able to lobby the prof to create a 491 special topics class that allows multiple people to enroll and speak exclusively in Russian. They might even have one already designed, just haven't ran it in a few years due to lack of interest.

3) If study abroad is not an option (it's incredibly easy to get a scholarship to a place like Russia, though, because they want people to come, and we want to pretend that we want to have citizens who "understand" Russia), nor is an intensive due to work or family obligations, you could consider trying to get into an advanced class at U Mich in Ann Arbor which goes up to the 400 level. Depending on how often they meet or if you can do it in the Summer, that'd determine the feasibility of commuting.

[David27]

I have a minor in Russian from the University of Iowa, and it got me to at least a solid B1 level (graduated 2011). I got a scholarship to pay for the college russian courses. I also was part of a Fulbright group that got to study 1 month in Moscow in the summer of 2011 through my college professor. I took the Russian equivalent of the B1 level placement exam in Moscow and passed it without any problems. I did a fair amount of outside the class studying and reading, and that helped me do well in my classes. It also is good to take the college classes because a lot of the students are Russian-American heritage learners who speak Russian but don’t know grammar or how to read and write as well, so it gave me a way to meet and make friends with Russians who I wouldn’t have met otherwise (more accurate to say people from the former USSR since they are really from all over the eastern block). The classes also help give structure and motivation to continually study even during busy university times. You wouldn’t do any russian during finals week without the minor, but with russian exams you’re forced to keep going and studying.

Since graduating I continue to use and study Russian, and it has had a really positive impact on my life. Is the minor necessary? No, but I got college elective credit for doing something I enjoyed. Career wise it doesn’t matter at all (in my experience). If you speak russian and put it on your resumé it will be a good conversation starter in an interview, but for me that’s about the only benefit it had, and that would be there if you had a minor or not. All in all I would say get the minor if you’re going to study russian anyway on your own (get some credits and add structure to your russian studies). Don’t expect it to be a big career booster, but it is still a very worthwhile thing to do for personal development.

[EthanH]

In general the answer to any question like this is: it is as much work as you are willing to put into it, and how far it takes you is dependent on that. I tested into 300 level Russian when I started my bachelor's and was beyond the other kids in the program. Many of them had horrendous accents, could not formulate sentences properly, etc. Of course, most of that is on the professor as well, but what that means is - you make your own fate. You can do the bare minimum and "pass" or you can work your ass off and be good after.

I looked briefly at the requirements for MSU's Russian minor and I can say that it doesn't seem heavy on language requirements. In fact the only advanced language class I see after the 2nd year I&II sequence is RUS 311 - Advanced Oral Communication.

I'll present to you a few ideas, beginning with what I would do "if I knew then what I know now":

1) Study intensively this summer and the summer after your first year. Maintain during 1st year. Prepare to place into 311 your 2nd year. Plan one summer to be in an intensive at the advanced level (UVA, Middlebury, Indiana, Arizona) or, ideally, in Russia (you could even get some computer science credits, too). If you are feeling really ambitious, you could enroll into the Independent Study after this and do some sort of analysis of a Russian novel in the original with the guidance of the Russian professor. If you think long-term, I'm certain you can reach something like a B2 by the end of your four years.

2) Did you learn Spanish in high school and did you like the classroom method? Do you feel the accountability helps you, and other peoples' levels do not interfere with your own enjoyment/success? In that case I would try my damnedest to get into the 2nd year sequence in your first year, and then follow on as above. If you have then 3 semesters with this professor and the same group of students, you might also have the type of relationship to be able to lobby the prof to create a 491 special topics class that allows multiple people to enroll and speak exclusively in Russian. They might even have one already designed, just haven't ran it in a few years due to lack of interest.

3) If study abroad is not an option (it's incredibly easy to get a scholarship to a place like Russia, though, because they want people to come, and we want to pretend that we want to have citizens who "understand" Russia), nor is an intensive due to work or family obligations, you could consider trying to get into an advanced class at U Mich in Ann Arbor which goes up to the 400 level. Depending on how often they meet or if you can do it in the Summer, that'd determine the feasibility of commuting.

This sounds like a very good and formulated plan. I did enjoy the idea of having someone plan the way I learn the language out for me; however, I am more than willing to do that myself. I guess I will be busy this summer!