Cursive: Going The Way Of The Dodo?

General discussion about learning languages

Do you write using cursive?

No, I do not.
20
27%
No, I do not (but I secretly wish that I could).
5
7%
No, I do not (but I wish that my children could).
1
1%
Yes, I do.
29
39%
Yes, I do and would like my children to learn the script too.
19
26%
 
Total votes: 74

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Iversen
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Re: Cursive: Going The Way Of The Dodo?

Postby Iversen » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:12 pm

I also learnt to write in cursive in school, but I decided to stick to block letters in Greek and the Slavic languages because practically everything I'll be reading in the future is printed stuff - so the more my hand writing looks like printed stuff the better. I have tried to switch to block letters in languages with a Latin alphabet too, but the result is something that still is continuous, but with letter shapes that are closer to the typed ones than they were before.

But there are some specific problems. For instance I don't like the dots of i's. I have dropped them over j's (except in Dutch, where ij is a common combination), but an i without its dot tends to be overlooked or even merged into neighbouring letters. So instead I have ended up with a situation where I extend those dots into lines that connect with the surrounding letters - except in languages (like Polish) which have use dots and accents like ´or `. The same with the line over the bottom part lower case q, but since I have started to write in Albanian I have seriously tried to leave out that line. On the other hand, the line over ł in Polish must be visible, and the ł must at any price be clearly distinct from the t in my cursive handwriting. So now I write ł and l as elongated loops with resp. without that line, and my t - at least in Polish - has now only got one vertical line, not a loop.

In other words my experiences with different languages have to some extent forced me to make changes to my Latin handwriting, but those changes just adds to the confusion. Basically it still is a fluid mess because I like to write words in one go with no interruptions, but I can't do so because of those pesky diacritics and my optical preference for block letters.
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Re: Cursive: Going The Way Of The Dodo?

Postby Elsa Maria » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:05 pm

I get a lot of compliments on both my cursive and my printing. When I was a child, I spent a lot of time practicing my handwriting. But my current usage is mixed. If I am writing in my native language for myself, I normally write in cursive with a smidgen of printed letters. If I am writing in Danish or Dutch, I usually print. Most of my Latin exercises are written in cursive. When I was studying Russian, I enjoyed practing the cursive. Because handwriting is fun!

My children are all young adults, and they had to learn cursive in school. I think only one of them writes in cursive now.
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Re: Cursive: Going The Way Of The Dodo?

Postby KateGladstone » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:15 pm

Handwriting matters: does cursive matter? Research shows that legible cursive writing averages no faster than printed handwriting of equal or greater legibility. (Sources for all research are available on request.)

The fastest, clearest handwriters avoid cursive: though they aren’t print-writers either. Highest speed and highest legibility in handwriting are attained by those who join only some letters, not all: joining only the most easily joined letter-combinations, leaving the rest unjoined, and using print-like shapes for letters whose printed and cursive shapes disagree.
Reading cursive still matters — but reading cursive is much easier and quicker to master than writing the same way too. Reading cursive, simply reading it, can be taught in just 30 to 60 minutes — even to five- or six-year-olds —once they read ordinary print.

Educated adults increasingly quit cursive. In 2012, handwriting teachers across North America were surveyed at a conference hosted by Zaner-Bloser, a publisher of cursive textbooks. Only 37% wrote in cursive; another 8% printed. The majority — 55% — wrote with some elements resembling print-writing, others resembling cursive.

Cursive’s cheerleaders repeatedly claim the support of research — citing studies that invariably prove to have been misquoted or otherwise misrepresented by the claimant. The usual form of misrepresentation is to take the abundant research that shows important benefits for handwriting in any of its forms (including printing) and to claim falsely that those advantages are limited to cursive.
(By the way, students in places that have mandated cursive for years or decades aren’t turning out any smarter or more skillful — in academics or in fine-motor graces — than students living anywhere else.)

What about cursive and signatures? Brace yourself: cursive signatures have no special legal validity over any other kind. (Hard to believe? Ask any member of the legal profession!)
 Questioned document examiners (specialists in the identification of signatures, the verification of documents, etc.) inform me that the least forgeable signatures are the plainest. Most cursive signatures are loose scrawls: the rest, if they follow the rules of cursive at all, are fairly complicated: these make a forger’s life easy.
All handwriting, not just cursive, is individual — just as all handwriting involves fine motor skills. That is why any first-grade teacher can immediately identify (from the print-writing on unsigned work) which of 25 or 30 students produced it.

Mandating cursive to preserve handwriting resembles mandating stovepipe hats and crinolines to preserve the art of tailoring.


Yours for better letters,
Kate Gladstone
DIRECTOR, the World Handwriting Contest
CEO, Handwriting Repair/Handwriting That Works
http://www.HandwritingThatWorks.com
handwritingrepair@gmail.com
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Re: Cursive: Going The Way Of The Dodo?

Postby Skynet » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:46 pm

@zjones and @dicentra8 just made me realise that it would be great to share our writing styles. @Zjones, would you happen to know what type of cursive this is*? +1,000 for anyone who can show that they can use Copperplate!

After shrinking my file from 6.23 MB to 450 KB, I still could not upload it here as it was 'too large.' I have had to upload my handwriting on WeTransfer*.

* File will be deleted after 7 days.
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Re: Cursive: Going The Way Of The Dodo?

Postby dicentra8 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:25 am

This is probably where I embarass myself a little. I just remembered about my old Mafalda's planner where there's still the leftovers of how I used to write in cursive (or the closest to it, I think). Plus a mistake right at the beginning. :shock:

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Re: Cursive: Going The Way Of The Dodo?

Postby embici » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:50 am

I use cursive all the time in English. It was the norm when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s in Canada. When I started travelling in the 90s I realized this was not the case everywhere. I had to learn to deliberately avoid using cursive in Mexico for example, as even people older than me didn't know it and weren't able to read it.

It's the same with Greek, a language I'm learning. I find it painstakingly slow to print in Greek and really wish I could write (using cursive). When I ask Greeks about cursive, they usually don't even know what I mean. After explaining it, they say something like "you can write however you want".

I grew up with rules about how to join the letters, not having set rules in Greek frustrates me.

But I suppose I should get over it.

My primary school-aged child is not learning it but I've heard that they are reintroducing it the schools.
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Re: Cursive: Going The Way Of The Dodo?

Postby aokoye » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:58 am

KateGladstone wrote:Educated adults increasingly quit cursive. In 2012, handwriting teachers across North America were surveyed at a conference hosted by Zaner-Bloser, a publisher of cursive textbooks. Only 37% wrote in cursive; another 8% printed. The majority — 55% — wrote with some elements resembling print-writing, others resembling cursive.

I suspect most people who grow up going to schools where the medium of instruction isn't a language like Hebrew or Russian quit cursive significantly earlier than becoming an adult, let alone an educated adult (I'm assuming you mean college educated). I mean I writing in cursive before I turned 10.

From March 2005 to January 2006, only 15% of SAT takers wrote their essay using cursive (link). There's a second article in the NYTimes (which is behind the usual NYTimes paywall) saying that the same was true in 2007. This, clearly, isn't an issue of "educated adults" increasingly quitting cursive. They weren't willingly writing in cursive by the time they graduated high school (or probably by the time they entered it).
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Re: Cursive: Going The Way Of The Dodo?

Postby Melkor » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:34 am

Skynet wrote: ... would you happen to know what type of cursive this is*? +1,000 for anyone who can show that they can use Copperplate!


Skynet wrote: .., using the script meant ... you were ... born immediately after WWII ... which starts extremely uncomfortable conversations.


I certainly cannot write in Coperplate, but can read it. I am confident that you write using the Palmer Method which predates WWII (try 1888!). I suppose that being asked. "How have you managed to stay alive for 130 years?" would not be considered a comfortable conversation. :lol:
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Re: Cursive: Going The Way Of The Dodo?

Postby Dylan95 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:36 am

People don't use it much in English anymore, but Russian cursive is as alive as ever.
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Re: Cursive: Going The Way Of The Dodo?

Postby PfifltriggPi » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:42 pm

I am one of the few people I know who write in cursive (although I should add that I know very few people in general.). I actually can't write in printing at all, I look like I'm a little kid when I try. In Cyrillic as well, I write in cursive, as normal, although I have some problems forming some letters: I shall have to ask someone at my church to help me improve my writing sometime. I think I'm the only person I know who can-not write in printing at all, but I'm not really sure. I shall, however, teach my children to primarily use cursive.
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