Advice on transcribing videos

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MorkTheFiddle
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Re: Advice on transcribing videos

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:17 am

elsmandino wrote:Do you think I am better off trying to find something else with a transcript (in case I really cannot figure out what is being said) or do you think I should stick with those videos?

If you are still thinking about using videos with transcripts, what about videos with French subtitles? I am in the process of looking at the site http://www.ilini.com with plans to review it for LLORG. I have looked at about 100 videos, but there are more that I want to look at before I write the review.
However, I will say now that I am going to recommend the site for folks like you doing intensive listening (although I am using it for extensive listening).
The site is free to look at, and you are free to watch three videos per month without paying anything. That obviously is not a lot of watching, but it will give you a peek at what's on offer. If you like, you can then sign up for a $5.99 plan or a $9.99 plan. If you visit the site, you can see the differences between the plans. Best of all, even if you sign up for a paid plan, you have ten days to quit without paying anything. A number of topics are covered, the videos for the most part are quite short, ranging from a little under one minute to three minutes long, and there are both French subtitles and English subtitles.
(I know I sound like a sales rep for ilini, but nope, I'm not, promise.)
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Ani
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Re: Advice on transcribing videos

Postby Ani » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:36 am

golyplot wrote:
elsmandino wrote:
I am finding that with French, if there is a word I cannot understand, I try to look it up and find that it doesn't exist. Hopefully, this is something that will go away in time, but it is a bit frustrating.


This is so true. French orthography and phonology are only distantly related. I think French is the second worst among all European languages, with the obvious exception of English.


Wait no. French is quite phonetic. There are really only a few options to try for different sound combinations.

I find it concerning if you're trying to transcribe without understand the sound system enough.. it's a great activity but I don't know that it's going to improve your listening. You need to listen to listen. At the very least, you should be transcribing from a video that has a known text that you can verify with.
One option is the subtitles from an originally French show. In this case, they should match the dialogue. Marseille is pretty good.
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golyplot
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Re: Advice on transcribing videos

Postby golyplot » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:58 am

There may be patterns in how words are spelled in French, but I don't think it can reasonably be called phonetic given that half of what is written is completely silent.
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Re: Advice on transcribing videos

Postby elsmandino » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:47 am

Thanks everyone.

I did do a bit more research and had a look at the free parts of "News in Slow French".

I surprised myself at how much I understood - it was considerably easier to understand, in comparison to the videos I sent the previous link to.

Again, it is difficult to know whether this is purely down to speed or whether it is the fact that NISF is specifically written for foreign learns as opposed to younger native speakers.

I seem to recall reading (on this forum, I think) that unless you really are a beginner to a language, you should start listening to regular native material as soon as possible - would you agree with that?

Luckily, I managed to find transcripts for the videos on this site at https://education.francetv.fr/marque/1-jour-1-question

At least I can now check any words or phrases that I just cannot get.
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Re: Advice on transcribing videos

Postby golyplot » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:34 pm

elsmandino wrote:I seem to recall reading (on this forum, I think) that unless you really are a beginner to a language, you should start listening to regular native material as soon as possible - would you agree with that?


I agree. When I start learning a language, one of my goals is to get to the point where I can start watching normal shows as quickly as possible.
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Re: Advice on transcribing videos

Postby elsmandino » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:56 pm

golyplot wrote:I agree. When I start learning a language, one of my goals is to get to the point where I can start watching normal shows as quickly as possible.


You seem to have an impressive number of languages on the go. What level are you with them all?

For those that you can watch regular shows with, was there anything in particular you did to get to that stage?
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Re: Advice on transcribing videos

Postby golyplot » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:08 pm

Well language learning is more of a spectrum than a binary level, so it is difficult to quantify, but I do watch shows in all of German, French, Spanish, and Dutch. Understanding native Spanish is a struggle though.

As far as tips, I posted tips here: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 10#p133715

Edit: Now that I have time to post in more detail, here is my story.

My Language Learning Journey

I started learning German in middle school, because it was a required subject for us. I always excelled at the academic aspects, but didn't do so well at fluency, probably because I was too embarrassed to try speaking much and not inclined to do much practice outside of school. My fourth year of German was really tough, so I stopped after that. When I got to college, I took two semesters of German to fulfill my humanities requirement, making a cumulative five years of classes (not consecutive).

Over the years, I watched German movies when I would stumble upon them on Youtube or whatever, but I didn't do that much with it. The biggest turning point came in 2014 when I learned about Duolingo. The Duolingo German course of course had nothing to offer me since I was already far too advanced, but it did connect me with the community of language learners and led me to discover the polyglot community. I learned that contrary to popular myth, it is not impossible for adults to learn new languages. I also found out that German public television can be streamed for free online, and set a goal of watching at least 90 minutes every week for 2015, during which my listening skills noticeably improved. I also took a week long trip to Berlin, though I was shy as usual and only tried to actually speak German a couple of times.

Armed with my newfound confidence and tools, I decided to try learning a completely new language and decided to start with French. At the time, I didn't know what I was doing, so I tried a bit of everything - French in Action, Easy French, Coffee Break French, Lingvist, etc. But I mostly relied Duolingo and French in Action for the first month. I tried to apply the same methods I used from German, but I quickly discovered that unlike with German TV, French public TV is generally not available online. (It's almost always geo-blocked). But I made due with what I could find through various means. I also watched several French cartoons on Netflix (Wakfu and later Lolirock) and the Youtuber Joueur du grenier.

During this time, I also took a month long break from French to try to develop an ear for Swiss German because I was going on a business trip to Switzerland. This mostly consisted of watching the show Best Friends. Of course, I never got a chance to test it due to being occupied with work matters (all conducted in English of course) and the germanophone Swiss all speak Standard German and I was mostly too shy to try talking to people in German anyway. But whatever, it was worth a try.

Anyway, not counting that detour, my initial French period lasted around 6 months. At that point, I found out about an opportunity to take American Sign Language (ASL) classes nearby and switched to focusing on ASL. Apart from the classes themselves, I did everything I could outside of class. I went through all the Lifeprint lessons, I watched anything I could find online in ASL, I started going to Deaf meetups, etc.
Unfortunately, after the first class, circumstances changed and I wasn't able to take classes any more. I continued going to Deaf meetups twice a month for almost a year, but eventually I decided that I wasn't getting anywhere and gave up.

I find it ironic that ASL is easily my weakest language despite having more in-person interaction time than every other language put together and more formal instruction than every language except German. But the methods I used for the other languages just don't work for ASL. With popular foreign languages, you can essentially immerse yourself in the language just by watching TV, but that is not possible with ASL.

Apart from that, the lack of a written form makes self-study extremely difficult. You can't just look up unfamiliar words like you can with other languages. Or rather you can look up the signs for English words but there is no way to do the reverse. And there's a lot of variation in the way things are signed, meaning that the signs you look up are often not helpful anyway. There's basically no way to progress without having someone to ask questions to. Lastly, the grammar is very different. Noone seems able to describe it, but the consensus is that "pure" ASL involves a completely different way of thinking than English, and the only way to learn that seems to be immersion. To add to the confusion, there is a wide variety of backgrounds and skill levels, so it is common to see people signing with English word order, even among the Deaf/HoH, and as a learner it is hard to even tell what is right.

I am still interested in learning ASL, I just don't think that I can right now. I do intend to take it back up if the opportunity ever arises (i.e. consistent practice opportunities and access to teachers), but in the mean time, I've forgotten almost everything.

Anyway, after my ASL classes ended, I took up Spanish. I used more or less the same approach as with French (start with Duolingo and try to start watching TV as soon as possible). The main difference is that with French, I focused on watching authentic native content. When it came to Spanish, I discovered that there were hardly any native Spanish shows on Netflix that I cared to watch, unlike with French. On the other hand, there are more shows dubbed into Spanish than any other language (due to Spanish being the secondary language of the US). For example, all the Disney/Marvel movies were available in English and Spanish on Netflix (US) but no other languages. So I ended up just watching lots of shows dubbed into Spanish instead (H2O: Just Add Water was one of my favorites).

Watching dubs opens up a lot more possibilities, because you can just find something you like, including the full strength of the American media empire, and watch the dub instead of relying on Netflix's limited foreign catalog. Apart from that, I think dubs are generally easier to understand than native content. Nowadays, I watch most TV shows and movies on Netflix dubbed, so I can try to kill two birds with one stone.

Over the next year, I "studied" French, and occasionally Spanish, off and on through these methods. It seems like every New Years finds me resolving to resume study of French, but I never get particularly far. For a while, I was trying to do The Mimic Method French course, to work on my pronunciation, but then that got discontinued.

Last summer, I had a Dutch coworker and got inspired to try to learn Dutch (though I never worked up the courage to try to actually speak it with him). Dutch is of course a substantially less useful language than French or Spanish, but I figured it would be a lot easier because it is very similar to English and German, which I already spoke. I knew from the outset that I probably wouldn't study it long term, but I figured I'd spend 5-6 months on it and see where I got.

So I started with the now familiar method of Duolingo + TV. The difference this time is that I primarily relied on Dutch public television, which is available free online, much like with German and Swiss German TV. (I'm not sure why the divide lines up so cleanly between Romance and Germanic language public broadcasters, but that's what I've observed). Apart from that, Netflix doesn't have much in Dutch anyway due to the relative obscurity of the language. My only annoyance was that it was difficult to get reliable streams even at the lowest quality, but I suppose beggars can't be choosers. I was also a big fan of the Youtube series Jachtseizoen.

Anyway, my coworker went back to the Netherlands in December, and as planned, I called it quits and returned my attention to French, (marking yet another New Year devoted to French). But I think this time will be a lot more successful, since I discovered a French meetup near me that happens every two weeks. So far it's been great for practicing speaking French, so I am finally getting a chance to work on my speaking skills a bit. I'm planning to visit France in the summer for vacation, after which I plan to resume Spanish or possibly start learning Japanese. I've always wanted to learn Japanese, but I understand it will be a lot harder than the big European languages I have experience with. Still, I figure that if I only care about listening skills (i.e. the ability to understand Anime), it shouldn't be too bad, since the most difficult part of Japanese is the writing systems.
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elsmandino
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Re: Advice on transcribing videos

Postby elsmandino » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:33 pm

Can't thank you for enough for that - what an inspiring response!

Whilst it is definitely nice to hear about others' successes, it does also help to hear about other people's struggles.

Sometimes, it just seems that everyone in the world is effortlessly assimilating languages and I am the only one struggling.

A really interesting point about French TV - totally agree that easily finding French TV to watch is really rather difficult.

When I was learning German, I also found loads of German channels and was pretty irritated that this access did not exist for French. I know that France are particularly keen to encourage the learning of French but I suppose it comes down to money/licensing issues at the end of the day.

Here in the UK, TVMonde was broadcast on satellite for many years but has recently gone online only - this is a real shame as it is so much easier just to flick a channel, rather than load something up via a browser.

You seem to be a bit of a fan of watching native TV and consider it helpful. Can I ask how long it was before you really started to understand what was going on? Is there anything you might recommend in particular for learning French?

Further to the url that you posted, I also had a go at watching Peppa Pig in French. I just could not follow it - did dent my confidence a bit, thinking that my French comprehension was even lower than that of a pre-schooler.

I did also start to watch Hélène et les Garçons, but quickly gave up - it was just too difficult to follow and it did not help that it was something I would never watch in English (was like a poorer version of Saved by the Bell).
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Re: Advice on transcribing videos

Postby DaveAgain » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:42 pm

elsmandino wrote:
I did also start to watch Hélène et les Garçons, but quickly gave up - it was just too difficult to follow and it did not help that it was something I would never watch in English (was like a poorer version of Saved by the Bell).
What sort of programmes do you like to watch in english?
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elsmandino
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Re: Advice on transcribing videos

Postby elsmandino » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:52 pm

I mainly watch factual stuff (history, science, travel, cooking etc.).

I don't mind the odd TV show and action/thriller film too.

BBC Four did go through a period of showing Spiral, which I absolutely loved - however, I watched it with the English subtitles and it did not help me at all as far as French goes. In fact, I almost questioned whether they were speaking French at first.

That was a while back and hopefully my French has improved since then - furthermore, I realise that something like Spiral is going to be a particular challenge for a learner. I assume that it was full of police/crime slang and it probably lived up to the stereotype that hardened police officers and murderers do not speak perfect French. Furthermore, all the car chases etc. made hearing the dialogue even more incomprehensible.
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