Why are movies and TV shows so difficult to understand?

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Kraut
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Re: Why are movies and TV shows so difficult to understand?

Postby Kraut » Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:32 am

"Real life speech": I step out of my house, see my neighbour and ask him "Ond, wäa gwennt?" He will perfectly understand what I mean being a Swabian and a VfB fan, the mailman who is just delivering a letter will not. If I said it in Hochdeutsch "Und, wer gewinnt?", he may make a correct guess.
"Real life speech" often is restricted speech, very colloquial, substandard - and lacking linguistic context! - with the context still being there, but it is extralinguistic, social and circumstantial.
In elaborated speech it would be something like "Und wer gewinnt heute nachmittag das Bundesligaspiel VfB Stuttgart gegen Mainz 05?", and the whole of Germany would perfectly understand what I'm saying.
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Re: Why are movies and TV shows so difficult to understand?

Postby språker » Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:27 pm

Kraut wrote:Real life speech" often is restricted speech, very colloquial, substandard - and lacking linguistic context!
It happens all the time that my wife leaves out (for me) important context when she speaks with me. She says (the) "room" without specifying which of our three rooms. I suppose leaving out context is OK if the receiver can guess, but I very often have to ask for more context. I hear all the words in the sentence, but am often often bad at guessing. I am a person who try to write grammatically correct text messages on the phone, deliberately adding in context for the receiver.
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Le Baron
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Re: Why are movies and TV shows so difficult to understand?

Postby Le Baron » Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:30 pm

Kraut wrote:"Real life speech": I step out of my house, see my neighbour and ask him "Ond, wäa gwennt?" He will perfectly understand what I mean being a Swabian and a VfB fan, the mailman who is just delivering a letter will not. If I said it in Hochdeutsch "Und, wer gewinnt?", he may make a correct guess.
"Real life speech" often is restricted speech, very colloquial, substandard - and lacking linguistic context! - with the context still being there, but it is extralinguistic, social and circumstantial.
In elaborated speech it would be something like "Und wer gewinnt heute nachmittag das Bundesligaspiel VfB Stuttgart gegen Mainz 05?", and the whole of Germany would perfectly understand what I'm saying.

Yes, the difference between localised speech and standard. I assume that your postman, unless he is foreign, illiterate or hard of hearing, would be able to understand and answer just as well as your neighbour! and of course we tend alter our delivery for the intended audience. Everyday speech isn't foolproof, but is very different from scripted drama and especially its delivery.
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Le Baron
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Re: Why are movies and TV shows so difficult to understand?

Postby Le Baron » Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:10 pm

Is that you chatbot? :lol:
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Re: Why are movies and TV shows so difficult to understand?

Postby fromaalborg » Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:12 pm

Lucía1134 wrote:Movies and TV shows can be difficult to understand for a variety of reasons. One reason is(...) Additionally,
Another reason is (....) his can be especially true in the case of (....)
Also, (....)
Additionally, some (...) making them harder to understand for some viewers.


This is the ChatGPT-formula, no?
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Re: Why are movies and TV shows so difficult to understand?

Postby Le Baron » Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:30 pm

I thought this might be worth revisiting. I watched a film on Arte (Messi & Maud, oddly listed as a 'series' even though it was just a film). They run a lot of foreign cinema on there and subtitle it in German or French. This one was in Dutch and some English, because they were among others while travelling.

I was thinking it would be great being in Dutch, an easy one for a change after all the Spanish films I've gone through on there, but no. Unbelievable amount of whispering and mumbling. Just to make sure I'm not crazy I turned the amp's volume up with headphones on. In that situation I could hear it all perfectly, but then the ambient noise, the wind, cars, background talking etc, were very loud and hurt my ears.

Yet further on when they were in a bar playing pool with some Italians they suddenly started speaking loudly! The amp was at half the volume I'd had it for the 'sound check'. When the woman left to go back to the hotel the Italians said 'bye' and 'goodnight' in Italian which was perfectly audible, and also their exchanges in Italian. Yet her asking for the hotel key from her husband and the initial exchange they had when he arrived back was unfathomable to me. Only when they started discussing in earnest was it clear again. So in those mumbling moments I was relying on the French subtitles, which is lunacy. Some of the subtitles were inaccurate too. :lol:

Like some of the French and German films I've watched on there the people simply have moments where they talk in a way barely anyone actually does in real life. It seems to have become a form of acting meant to represent everyday reality, which is actually not like ordinary talking in situations where there's no chaos or lots of people talking at once. I'd stopped watching Dutch TV ages ago, but I've been watching some series and films just to see if the same thing is going on and it is. I don't think it's anything to do with sound mixing at all, or at least the sound thing is separate and only partial. Rather there's just a different approach to dialogue delivery and not just because of microphone sensitivity. The music and foley soundtracks probably aren't 'louder', even though they appear so, they're just normal. The dialogue track is likely also properly balanced, which seems to be so or there wouldn't be moments of clarity. Yet there are other moments meant to represent states of 'intimacy' or emotion which even the sensitive microphone can't properly capture. This particular part of film acting seems to have gone downhill.
For a double check I got my neighbour, with still-youthful 30 year-olds' ears, to listen to some of the scenes. She said she had no idea what they were saying and only picked some out after umpteen rewinds. She also said: 'oh I always use the subtitles anyway'. For content in her own language! Just like I have had to for some English drama content. I think it says enough.

After having seen things in English, French and Dutch now, three languages I'm never usually troubled by when listening, and finding so much inaudible dialogue, I think it's correct to say that learners might be watching content and thinking they are failing when in fact they're expecting to hear what even natives barely make out. It's a real problem. The moodier the content - police drama, thriller etc - the worse it is.
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Re: Why are movies and TV shows so difficult to understand?

Postby tastyonions » Wed Mar 01, 2023 12:55 am

Yeah, I think it’s a real trend. And you’re right about the correlation to “moodiness,” I find that comedies are still pretty easy to listen to. Maybe they don’t want people to miss the jokes?
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Re: Why are movies and TV shows so difficult to understand?

Postby SJith » Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:50 am

Thank you for the thread.
I believe it all comes down to accent and inability of the audience to follow the conversation.
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mattmo
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Re: Why are movies and TV shows so difficult to understand?

Postby mattmo » Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:14 pm

Yeah I think that native level content is always going to be hard for language learner because native level content often isn't designed for consumption by language learners.

However if you're intermediate or advanced in the language I believe you will be able to still enjoy native level content.
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Re: Why are movies and TV shows so difficult to understand?

Postby munyag » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:43 am

rdearman wrote:Scottish accents are hard even for Native English speakers. I know in America they put sub-titles on for Susan Boyle, the Britain's Got Talent star, was given subtitles during an appearance on the Oprah Winfrey Show.


My experience of Scottish accents has been varied. I did watch Monarch of the Glen in my teens and that wasn't too bad.I work in the Scottish Highlands and I have only come across one person that I still struggle to understand. I hear the Glaswegian accent is quite tricky to understand too!
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