What exactly is Luca Lampariello's Bidirectional Translation Method?

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Le Baron
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Re: What exactly is Luca Lampariello's Bidirectional Translation Method?

Postby Le Baron » Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:00 am

Granrey wrote:Just a word of caution. Youtubers tend to have a new method every week.

What EVERYONE gets wrong in language learning! And 10 ways to get them RIGHT!
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Re: What exactly is Luca Lampariello's Bidirectional Translation Method?

Postby Cainntear » Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:23 am

Le Baron wrote:What EVERYONE gets wrong in language learning! And 10 ways to get them RIGHT!

Professional polyglot REACTS to video "What EVERYONE gets wrong in language learning! And 10 ways to get them RIGHT!"

Granrey wrote:Just a word of caution. Youtubers tend to have a new method every week.

I'm not sure that's quite the full story.
People who have been at it a long time are kind of personally invested in being right, and therefore keep pushing the same idea. The worst they usually get is when they pick up on the latest trend and make a video that claims to support the trending idea and days it's a good thing, but then goes on to tell you to do something completely different anyway... the same thing they've been telling you to do for years.

There are a few wannabes about who decide that they're going to make a language channel when they're basically doing their first language. They keep "discovering" something and telling you with false authority that it's the best thing ever.
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Re: What exactly is Luca Lampariello's Bidirectional Translation Method?

Postby garyb » Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:35 am

Granrey wrote:Just a word of caution. Youtubers tend to have a new method every week.

This is what I thought when I first saw this thread. When I learnt about Luca's bidirectional translation method a few years ago, the sessions were spaced a week apart: do a lesson, then translate to L1 a week later, then translate to L2 a week after that. Now it's apparently 24 then 48 hours... But at least it's the same method, just with different timing. I suppose after a day the material is much fresher in your mind, although it's maybe not as good for long-term retention; who knows.

I did actually work through a few Assimil books using that method, with one-week intervals. I'd say it worked pretty well in the cases where I knew a related language: Italian (already knowing French) and Spanish (already knowing French and Italian), and I feel that it gave me a much more solid knowledge of the material more quickly than the standard Assimil passive and active waves would have - although of course I can't prove that since there's no control. But I did find that the ambiguity made translation harder and less useful as I got further through the books, and I had to add a lot of little notes to my L1 translations to hint at which word/expression to use when translating back to L2.

It didn't work as well for German - I just got overwhelmed pretty quickly because I didn't have enough of a base knowledge of the language so translating in either direction took ages and didn't feel like a good use of my time - but I think that's just (more) evidence that Assimil wasn't a suitable course for a beginner who doesn't know a closely-related language. Although the original article where Luca explained his method (which was a guest post on a blog called Women Learn Thai, which has since been taken over and become an advertising space for "expat services" and Part 2 of the article has disappeared, so I don't even want to link to it) was about learning a much more distant language than German...
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Re: What exactly is Luca Lampariello's Bidirectional Translation Method?

Postby Kraut » Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:33 pm

In the case of Toussaint-Langenscheidt there is a serious success story of a hundred years:
https://www.booklooker.de/B%C3%BCcher/A ... genscheidt
https://sammlungen.ub.uni-frankfurt.de/ ... w/12097523
Praktische Verbreitung erfuhr sie in Form von Lernbriefen und Büchern über einen Zeitraum von rund hundert Jahren hinweg etwa bis Mitte des 20. Jahrhunderts. In der europäischen Methodengeschichte des Fremdsprachenunterrichts hat sie einen festen Platz.
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It spread in practice in the form of learning letters and books over a period of around a hundred years until the middle of the 20th century. It has a firm place in the European history of foreign language teaching methods.


-------------------------
Der kleine Toussaint-Langenscheidt, mit Angabe der Aussprache nach dem phonetischen System der Methode Toussaint-Langenscheidt. Italienisch zur schnellsten Aneignung der Ümgangssprache durch Selbstunterricht Reisesprachführer, Konversationsbuch, Grammatik und Wörterbuch, Gespräche, auch zur Anwendung für Sprechmaschinen
1900

https://archive.org/details/derkleineto ... 3/mode/2up
https://ia902902.us.archive.org/11/item ... oft_bw.pdf

--------------
This here is an introduction into the teaching of French in German schools and the author praises the method although the target groups of Langenscheidt is adults.
https://ia601604.us.archive.org/25/item ... nduoft.pdf
page 79

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Re: What exactly is Luca Lampariello's Bidirectional Translation Method?

Postby Le Baron » Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:25 pm

Cainntear wrote:There are a few wannabes about who decide that they're going to make a language channel when they're basically doing their first language. They keep "discovering" something and telling you with false authority that it's the best thing ever.

I won't name names, but yes I've seen some of these. They're rather embarrassing and I'm often stunned that these people offer themselves as a paid 'language coach' when they're actually still learning! You have to be really hard-faced to do that.
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Re: What exactly is Luca Lampariello's Bidirectional Translation Method?

Postby Picaboo » Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:33 pm

garyb wrote:(which was a guest post on a blog called Women Learn Thai


Here is the critical part detailing the method for Thai:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160812190 ... s-part-two


Here are the other two relevant posts:
Part I of the post.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160816134 ... languages/

Luca writing about generic Luca stuff:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160808063 ... -learning/
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Re: What exactly is Luca Lampariello's Bidirectional Translation Method?

Postby Cainntear » Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:46 pm

garyb wrote:It didn't work as well for German - I just got overwhelmed pretty quickly because I didn't have enough of a base knowledge of the language so translating in either direction took ages and didn't feel like a good use of my time - but I think that's just (more) evidence that Assimil wasn't a suitable course for a beginner who doesn't know a closely-related language.

Well, the fact that you weren't actually attempting the Assimil "method" per se makes it harder to make such a claim. Anyone defending Assimil would just say "you weren't doing it right" and so blame you. I really don't like that sort of thing, though, because the whole notion of active and passive waves is kind of vague anyway. What does it mean to just try to understand? The great thing about weak explanations is you can always defend yourself by saying "that isn't what I mean", and it seems like it's really easy to get the fanboys to accept that without realising that you've never actually said what you do mean.

Although the original article where Luca explained his method (which was a guest post on a blog called Women Learn Thai, which has since been taken over and become an advertising space for "expat services" and Part 2 of the article has disappeared, so I don't even want to link to it) was about learning a much more distant language than German...

Is there a URL for the old blog site? Have you tried the Wayback Machine? Might be an interesting exercise to compare what he used to say with what he's saying now.

[And just as I post, up pops a thing saying At least one new post has been made to this topic. You may wish to review your post in light of this. for Picaboo's wayback machine links. Thanks Picachoo -- I'll clickthrough and read. Could be pretty interesting to compare, as I said.]
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Re: What exactly is Luca Lampariello's Bidirectional Translation Method?

Postby Picaboo » Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:53 pm

As far as I can tell, this and Prof Arguelles method and the Assimil two stage method are all based on the same principle.

Take high quality material that slowly gets more complicated, most probably dialogues, that has sound files and translations. Then internalize the dialogues in an efficient manner.

In principle, you are memorize the material to the extent you can reproduce them in the target language from the memory cue which is the translated text. You probably want to be able to do this with both a written and verbal output.

Any differences in method are largely due to what is the best way to "memorize" Assimil. And this likely varies from person to person so following anyone else's formula is likely not the most efficient for you, but a good starting point.
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Re: What exactly is Luca Lampariello's Bidirectional Translation Method?

Postby Granrey » Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:31 am

on this video he learned Spanish by watching Spiderman 50 times

https://youtu.be/eliB_y0fmSk?si=o6IQC3kNlOOLJuYS

he learned 93% of Spanish in one day

https://youtu.be/6vkEHdPAcgA?si=8Q253Lcvczy0Vx_M

he quit Spanish because he was fat.

https://youtu.be/h-E-M8S4Has?si=1PQy1J2AZiBy9AY4

how I learned Spanish for 24 hrs straight

https://youtu.be/zwOjyiRr5ZA?si=D9DvN5K6qVYIBchc

And he has lots of these in which he learns Spanish so many times over and over
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Re: What exactly is Luca Lampariello's Bidirectional Translation Method?

Postby tangleweeds » Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:22 am

garyb wrote:When I learnt about Luca's bidirectional translation method a few years ago, the sessions were spaced a week apart: do a lesson, then translate to L1 a week later, then translate to L2 a week after that. Now it's apparently 24 then 48 hours... But at least it's the same method, just with different timing. I suppose after a day the material is much fresher in your mind, although it's maybe not as good for long-term retention; who knows.
I think it’s an interesting question though, which interval might be better for whom, and why. It seems like an elastic point in the exercise that would bear playing around with.

I like Luca, and his English is fantastic, to my ear, just the very occasional admixture of regional accents you don’t normally hear juxtaposed. It is somewhat amusing how cagey he’s gotten about his methods, given it’s pretty well defined by its very name (not to mention historically). I do think that if you had money to burn, he could be a useful advisor on things like the question above. I’m all in favor of anyone making a living outside the cubicle, as long as they’re reasonably qualified.

But, let’s say, if you want to learn Spanish, and you can’t afford Luca…?? :mrgreen: ??
…maybe you’d better just go figure it out for yourself.

Edited to fix spelling
Last edited by tangleweeds on Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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