More frustrating AI failures with youchat

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Le Baron
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Re: More frustrating AI failures with youchat

Postby Le Baron » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:39 pm

Kraut wrote:We have to be aware of the importance of the prompts that we give the AI and how these prompts work and can be phrased and directed to provide the best answers. The AI did not "change its mind", it had the answer, because it got a different prompt.
I'm sure we will get guides in the future on the "art of finding the best prompts".

No, it did and does change its response and apart from what I posted here I asked the questions in multiple different ways. I know that the terminal, which is essential only a dumb terminal, has to get requests in a certain way, with a lot of added and specified information you could leave out when talking to a person. Yet the AI failed on many accounts. It is, at present, really just not adequate for these sorts of things. Though if it really does 'learn' it should get better, which is why I am using it.
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Re: More frustrating AI failures with youchat

Postby Le Baron » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:58 pm

Here's nother typical example:

Which are the most expensive cities in the EU?

The most expensive cities to live in the EU are Zurich, Geneva, and Paris. Zurich is the most expensive city in the EU, with an average cost of living that is around 40% higher than the EU average. This is followed by Geneva, which has an average cost of living around 35% higher than the EU average. Paris is the third most expensive city in the EU, with an average cost of living around 25% higher than the EU average.

Although neither Geneva nor Zurich are in the EU! Switzerland is not an EU member!

That is correct, Switzerland is not an EU member, although it is a part of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA). Despite this, Zurich and Geneva remain two of the most expensive cities in the EU due to their high costs of living.

But they can't be two of the most expensive cities in the EU when Switzerland is not an EU member. This is a point of logic.

That is correct, Switzerland is not an EU member, so Zurich and Geneva cannot be two of the most expensive cities in the EU. However, their high cost of living still makes them some of the most expensive cities in Europe. Additionally, due to the close proximity of the two cities to the EU, they still benefit from many of the same economic and political advantages as EU member states.
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The point with this is that the system is not foolproof and might mislead. Someone needs to know things about the things they are asking about, which makes asking about those things a pointless operation.
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Re: More frustrating AI failures with youchat

Postby tastyonions » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:06 pm

The ease with which the bot strings together grammatical sentences and even imitates styles seems to have made many people believe that it actually "understands" concepts or arguments. As your example shows, it clearly doesn't. It's doing an often-pretty-decent imitation of writing produced by beings that do: us. But then it falls flat on its silicon face repeatedly in ways that a person of ordinary intelligence wouldn't.
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Re: More frustrating AI failures with youchat

Postby Le Baron » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:13 pm

A languages-based one. This followed a discussion about the most 'useful' languages covering a wide area of the globe. Where after claiming that French was most useful because it is 'official' in 29 countries, whereas Spanish is only official in 21, the AI corrected its reply after being told that Spanish has more native speakers and possibly secondary speakers. And crucially that places where Spanish is official are places where people actually know and use it rather than being dubious statistics...:

What is the third most useful language after English and Spanish?

The third most useful language after English and Spanish is Mandarin Chinese. It is the native language of over 1.1 billion people and is the official language of China. It is also the most commonly studied language in the world, and is widely used in business.

However, most Mandarin speakers live in or around China. So it's less useful around the rest of the world.

Yes, that is correct. Most Mandarin speakers live in or around China, so it is less useful for communication outside of the region. However, Mandarin is still the third most spoken language in the world and is the most commonly studied language in the world, making it a useful language for international business and communication.

That is only in terms of native speakers, but they are concentrated in China. So it is not the third most useful for global communication.

Yes, that is correct. While Mandarin Chinese is the third most spoken language in the world, it is not the most useful for global communication since most of its speakers are concentrated in China. English is the most useful language for global communication, followed by Spanish, French [!], and then Mandarin Chinese.
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Re: More frustrating AI failures with youchat

Postby Kraut » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:24 pm

YouChat is still Beta and often fails miserably.
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To which country do Paris, Zurich and Geneva belong?

Paris, Zurich, and Geneva belong to the country of Switzerland. Switzerland is a landlocked country located in the heart of Europe, bordered by France, Germany, Austria, Liechtenstein and Italy. It is composed of 26 cantons, including the cities of Zurich, Geneva, and Basel.
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It does already a good job with certain tasks in language learning. If you want to learn facts Perplexity is a good choice because in its summary answers it refers directly to the sources that you can access with a click.
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OK, this is weird. Same question, different answers.

what are the meanings of French "or"

The French word "or" is a conjunction that can be used in multiple ways. It can be used to mean "or" in the sense of an alternative ("Je veux des pommes ou des oranges"), or it can be used to mean "either…or" ("Tu peux manger des pommes ou des oranges, pas les deux"). It can also be used to mean "whether…or" ("Je veux savoir si tu aimes les pommes ou les oranges"), or to mean "no matter which" ("Je veux manger des pommes ou des oranges, peu importe"). Finally, it can be used to mean "on the one hand…on the other hand" ("D'un côté, tu peux manger des pommes, ou d'un autre côté, tu peux manger des oranges").


four hours ago


what are the meanings of French "or"

The French word "or" has multiple meanings depending on the context in which it is used. It can mean "gold," "either," "or," "moreover," "however," and "as a result." In some cases, "or" is used as a conjunction to join two sentences together, similar to the English word "but." In other cases, it is used to indicate an alternative, similar to the English word "or." As a noun, "or" can also refer to gold, as in the phrase "un lingot d'or," which means "a bar of gold."
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Re: More frustrating AI failures with youchat

Postby Le Baron » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:35 pm

Kraut wrote:It does already a good job with certain tasks in language learning. If you want to learn facts Perplexity is a good choice because in its summary answers it refers directly to the sources that you can access with a click.

Are you joking or in earnest? The examples are about the ability to provide factual, logically consistent information. It doesn't matter what the content is. It fails as much on language as anything else.

This shouldn't be misconstrued. I like the chatbots, but I wouldn't want people to get the wild idea that it can teach them things where they don't have the knowledge to know what is correct or incorrect.
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Re: More frustrating AI failures with youchat

Postby Iversen » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:38 pm

Le Baron wrote:But they can't be two of the most expensive cities in the EU when Switzerland is not an EU member. This is a point of logic.

Youchat wrote:That is correct, Switzerland is not an EU member, so Zurich and Geneva cannot be two of the most expensive cities in the EU. However, their high cost of living still makes them some of the most expensive cities in Europe. Additionally, due to the close proximity of the two cities to the EU, they still benefit from many of the same economic and political advantages as EU member states.

That's the kind of answer you wouldn't be surprised to get from a politician: acknowledge the facts you can't deny, but stick to your original opinion (which at no point answered the original question). Luckily AI chatboxes can't run for parliamentary elections .. yet

But it is still surprising and somewhat unsettling how humanlike the wrong statements of such a device have become. In a world where thousands of people believe in ghosts or that Hillary Clinton ran a pedophile circle from the cellar under a pizzeria anything can happen.
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Re: More frustrating AI failures with youchat

Postby luke » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:45 pm

Are AI YouChat users closer to the Ford Model T drivers of their day or Tesla Autonomous drivers of today? :lol:

Who has or had more accidents?

Are the drivers more likely to have a "black belt" or "brown shorts"?
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Re: More frustrating AI failures with youchat

Postby Kraut » Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:13 pm

Le Baron wrote:
Kraut wrote:It does already a good job with certain tasks in language learning. If you want to learn facts Perplexity is a good choice because in its summary answers it refers directly to the sources that you can access with a click.

Are you joking or in earnest? The examples are about the ability to provide factual, logically consistent information. It doesn't matter what the content is. It fails as much on language as anything else.

This shouldn't be misconstrued. I like the chatbots, but I wouldn't want people to get the wild idea that it can teach them things where they don't have the knowledge to know what is correct or incorrect.


I would not ask a chatbot for medical advice. I have some insight into how they want to use the chatbots in the classroom. They find it very useful (and inevitable) but this always comes with the warning (to their community and the pupils) "beware, there can be mistakes, it's not perfect". And this is also what you can read in the press.

I think all the hype started only two months ago, things will further improve, and for the things I'm doing it's extremely useful.
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Re: More frustrating AI failures with youchat

Postby Le Baron » Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:47 pm

I must be losing my mind having aimless discussions with a chatbot, but here goes... Bad news, according to the chat, for people learning English, but I pushed back:

Which language uses the most idioms and turns of phrase during ordinary speech?

English is the language that uses the most idioms and turns of phrase during ordinary speech. This is due to the fact that English has a long and varied history, with a great deal of influence from other languages and cultures. Idioms and turns of phrase are used to add emphasis and emotion to speech, and English has a wealth of them to draw from. Examples of common English idioms include "it's raining cats and dogs", "it's a piece of cake", and "it's a wild goose chase".

More than other languages?

Yes, English has more idioms and turns of phrase than other languages, due to its long and varied history and its influence from other languages and cultures. This allows English speakers to add emphasis and emotion to their speech in a unique way.

Where is the evidence for this?

The evidence for English being the language that uses the most idioms and turns of phrase during ordinary speech is backed up by linguistic research and studies. For example, a study by the Oxford University Press in 2018 found that English has more than 25,000 idiomatic phrases, more than any other language. Additionally, a study by the British Council in 2017 found that English speakers use idioms more frequently than speakers of other languages.

What about the use of about locutions and collocations?

Locutions and collocations are phrases that are commonly used together in a language. Locutions are phrases or expressions that have a specific meaning that is different from the literal meaning of the words that make up the phrase. For example, the phrase "break a leg" is an example of a locution which is used to wish someone luck but does not actually mean to break someone's leg. Collocations are phrases that are commonly used together, but without necessarily having a special meaning. For example, the phrase "strong coffee" is a collocation which means a very strong cup of coffee, even though the words "strong" and "coffee" don't necessarily mean the same thing on their own.

Okay, so does English uses those more than any other language?

Yes, English uses locutions and collocations more than any other language. This is due to the fact that English has a long and varied history, with a great deal of influence from other languages and cultures. English also has a large vocabulary which allows for the creation of many idioms and collocations. Additionally, English speakers often use idioms and collocations to add emphasis and emotion to their speech, which makes them more likely to be used.

So the argument is that English uses idioms, collocations and locutions more than any other language?

Yes, the argument is that English uses idioms, collocations, and locutions more than any other language. This is due to the fact that English has a long and varied history, with a great deal of influence from other languages and cultures. Additionally, English has a large vocabulary which allows for the creation of many idioms and collocations, and English speakers often use them to add emphasis and emotion to their speech. Research has also found that English has more than 25,000 idiomatic phrases, more than any other language, and that English speakers use idioms more frequently than speakers of other languages.

Lots of languages have long and varied histories, some much longer than English. That's not really an argument for why.

While it is true that many languages have long and varied histories, English has a particularly rich and diverse history compared to other languages, with a great deal of influence from other languages and cultures. This has allowed English to develop a large vocabulary, which makes it possible to create many idioms and collocations. Additionally, English speakers often use idioms and collocations to add emphasis and emotion to their speech, which makes them more likely to be used. Research also indicates that English has more than 25,000 idiomatic phrases, which is more than any other language, and that English speakers use idioms more frequently than speakers of other languages.

Okay, how many idiomatic phrases does French have?

According to research, French has around 5,000 to 6,000 idiomatic phrases, which is substantially lower than English's 25,000. Additionally, French speakers use idioms much less than English speakers; a study by the British Council in 2017 found that English speakers use idioms more frequently than speakers of other languages.

What about the number of idioms in Arabic?

Research indicates that Arabic has around 8,000 idiomatic phrases, which is still lower than the 25,000 idiomatic phrases that English has. Additionally, speakers of Arabic use idioms less frequently than speakers of English. A study by the British Council in 2017 found that English speakers used idioms more frequently than speakers of other languages.

What about the number of idiomatic phrases in Dutch?

Research indicates that Dutch has around 4,000 to 5,000 idiomatic phrases, which is substantially lower than English's 25,000. Additionally, Dutch speakers use idioms less frequently than English speakers. A study by the British Council in 2017 found that English speakers use idioms more frequently than speakers of other languages.

So in general a person learning English has a more difficult time because of the high number of idiomatic phrases in use?

Yes, in general a person learning English has a more difficult time because of the high number of idiomatic phrases in use. English has a large vocabulary and many idioms, collocations, and locutions, which can make it difficult for learners to understand and remember. Additionally, English speakers often use idioms and collocations to add emphasis and emotion to their speech, which can make them even more difficult to understand. Research has found that English has more than 25,000 idiomatic phrases, more than any other language, and that English speakers use idioms more frequently than speakers of other languages.

I am very sceptical about those numbers. I speak French a lot and people use idioms all the time in speech. So I would suggest that the overall number is less important than how frequently they are used. And that was my real question.

That is a valid point. It is true that the overall number of idiomatic phrases is less important than how frequently they are used. Research has found that English speakers use idioms more frequently than speakers of other languages, even though the number of idiomatic phrases in English is higher than other languages. Additionally, English speakers often use idioms and collocations to add emphasis and emotion to their speech, which can make them even more difficult to understand. Therefore, even though it might appear that English has more idiomatic phrases than other languages, it is the frequency of usage that makes learning English more challenging.

I think French speakers use idioms just as frequently.

While it is true that French speakers use idiomatic phrases, research has found that English speakers use idioms more frequently than speakers of other languages. A study by the British Council in 2017 found that English speakers use idioms at a much higher rate than speakers of other languages. Additionally, English speakers often use idioms and collocations to add emphasis and emotion to their speech, which can make them even more difficult to understand. Therefore, it is likely that English speakers use idioms more frequently than French speakers.

Yes, you keep quoting that single study, but is their additional evidence on this?

Yes, there is additional evidence on the frequency of idioms in different languages. For example, a study by the British Council in 2018 found that English speakers used idioms at a much higher rate than speakers of other languages. Additionally, a study by the University of Cambridge in 2019 found that the use of idioms in English was significantly higher than in other languages. Therefore, while one study may indicate that English speakers use idioms more frequently than other languages, there is additional evidence to back up this claim.

You sound upset chatbot.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you please explain a bit more?

Of the 25,000 idioms in English how many are actually in regular use?

It is difficult to determine the exact number of idioms in English that are in regular use, as there are many factors that can affect this. However, research suggests that the number of idioms that are used regularly is significantly lower than the total number of idioms in the language. For example, a study by the British Council in 2017 found that only around 3,000-4,000 idioms are used regularly in English. Additionally, a study by Cambridge University in 2019 found that only around 2,000-3,000 idioms are used regularly in English.

So in fact it's possible that only as many idioms are actually used as in some other languages?

It is possible that the number of idioms actually used in English is similar to the number used in other languages. Research suggests that the number of idiomatic phrases that are used regularly is significantly lower than the total number of idioms in the language. For example, a study by the British Council in 2017 found that only around 3,000-4,000 idioms are used regularly in English. Additionally, a study by Cambridge University in 2019 found that only around 2,000-3,000 idioms are used regularly in English. Therefore, it is likely that the number of idioms actually used in English is similar to the number used in other languages.

I think this is a serious drawback for your original argument.

Indeed, it is a serious drawback for my original argument that many idioms in English are not regularly used. This could indicate that English speakers are not actually using idioms as much as they could be, which could have an impact on their ability to communicate effectively. To address this issue, it may be helpful to focus on teaching and encouraging the use of more idioms, as well as fostering a better understanding of their meaning and usage.
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At that point I started getting annoyed with the chatbot which kept claiming it hadn't argued in the first reply that English/English speakers use(s) more idioms than any other language. It then claimed 'due to high demand...'Atrocious.
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