Wiki Grumbles & Reviews

Discuss the LLORG's and HTLAL forum's past and its future here.
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zenmonkey
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Re: Wiki Grumbles & Reviews

Postby zenmonkey » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:18 am

fcoulter wrote:
rdearman wrote:
fcoulter wrote:I would love to see where Language Islands is used the way that it's being used here. When I googled the term, I didn't find it anywhere defined differently than Wikipedia's definition.


The concept of language islands as we use it is from this book.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Improve-Your-F ... 0967990750


The "long" list of tasks plays to your apparent strengths in Dutch, and would improve an existing article no end. The existing article is barely there.


I don't think rdearman speaks Dutch, unless that's a new secret skill he's been hiding. I wouldn't put that past him. He's quite the spy master.
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Re: Wiki Grumbles & Reviews

Postby fcoulter » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:19 am

One additional thought. Rather than listing all the parallel text articles within the Dutch article (which has almost no actual information about the Dutch language), would it make more sense to have a separate article with those articles, and have that article linked in the Dutch article? (Along with a link to what the heck a Language Island is?)
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Re: Wiki Grumbles & Reviews

Postby fcoulter » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:21 am

rdearman wrote:Please note that the administrators of the wiki are the moderator here EMK and moderator Serpent. You need to talk to them about jioning the admin team or about deletions etc.


There is only one administrator listed on the wiki, and that person hasn't made an edit in over four years. When I've asked about the wiki Admin, I've gotten silence.

Perhaps they should be the wiki administrators, but apparently they're not.
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Re: Wiki Grumbles & Reviews

Postby zenmonkey » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:23 am

smallwhite wrote:I don’t want to go through 7 theeads, but do we know or have we decided on the purpose of the wiki? (Seeing we’re already talking about deleting articles).

What happens if I write an article on flashcards being The Best Way to learn vocabulary? (And if I write it as a guest post on the LLorg main site?)


I'd imagine that somewhere along the way, someone would a) request factual references b) there might be an edit war c) if enough back and forth occurred there would be an locked version of the wiki entry...

But probably there isn't enough energy in the community for that.
It be awesome to see so much energy and conviction for edit wars to occur.
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Re: Wiki Grumbles & Reviews

Postby fcoulter » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:24 am

smallwhite wrote:I don’t want to go through 7 theeads, but do we know or have we decided on the purpose of the wiki? (Seeing we’re already talking about deleting articles).

What happens if I write an article on flashcards being The Best Way to learn vocabulary? (And if I write it as a guest post on the LLorg main site?)


I haven't talked about deleting. I asked about the purpose of the wiki. The author of the articles in question talked about deleting his work.

The wiki (IMHO) should be fact based, so if the article mostly talked about how flashcards work, and that in your opinion it was the best way to go, then it should be fine. (It would be better if you cited others who agree with you. Even better if the article also mentioned those who think it's dumber than a brick. If any.)

As a blog post, it's assumed to be opinion.
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Re: Wiki Grumbles & Reviews

Postby zenmonkey » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:25 am

fcoulter wrote:One additional thought. Rather than listing all the parallel text articles within the Dutch article (which has almost no actual information about the Dutch language), would it make more sense to have a separate article with those articles, and have that article linked in the Dutch article? (Along with a link to what the heck a Language Island is?)


Repeating myself: Here is a first draft description of Language Islands.
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Re: Wiki Grumbles & Reviews

Postby fcoulter » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:32 am

zenmonkey wrote:
fcoulter wrote:
zenmonkey wrote:The concepts Language Islands, Chunking, etc... all should have there own Wiki page like Shadowing, etc have. :D


Could have sworn I saw something about Chunking in the wiki so I could say that someone beat your to it. Nope.

I would love to see where Language Islands is used the way that it's being used here. When I googled the term, I didn't find it anywhere defined differently than Wikipedia's definition.


Here is a first draft description of Language Islands


Given the other definition of language islands, IMHO you probably should include both definitions. Focus on the one you like, but don't ignore the other one. You may also wish to expand on the concept more.

(I wonder what would happen if you edited the Wikipedia article about Language Islands to also include this definition.)

Given the length of some of the parallel texts, I'm not sure that they qualify as "simple texts that are easy to memorise", but that may be more a sign of my failing memory than anything else. (At Toastmasters, I've discovered that I cannot memorize a speech. I rely on outlines, and fill in the details extemporaneously.)

By the way, I didn't notice this until I pasted that phrase into this post, but memorise is spelled wrong.
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Re: Wiki Grumbles & Reviews

Postby fcoulter » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:38 am

zenmonkey wrote:Repeating myself: Here is a first draft description of Language Islands.


You didn't need to repeat yourself. You type faster than I think. I was getting there. I had to read the article.

And that article would be a great one to link to in the suggested separate article about Dutch/English Language Islands (or whatever). And in all the other articles on X/Y Language Islands. (Or as in the opening paragraph of the section on Language Islands in the Dutch article. Although I think it's clunky.)

Thinking about Wikipedia, they have articles with the incredibly imaginative name of "List of bus routes in London", so it's quite reasonable to have an article called List of Dutch/English Language Islands. It's a long name, but it's also a good name in that it says exactly what it is.
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Re: Wiki Grumbles & Reviews

Postby fcoulter » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:41 am

zenmonkey wrote:I'd imagine that somewhere along the way, someone would a) request factual references b) there might be an edit war c) if enough back and forth occurred there would be an locked version of the wiki entry...

But probably there isn't enough energy in the community for that.
It be awesome to see so much energy and conviction for edit wars to occur.


I haven't mentioned references yet. Although I was planning on explaining how to do it. (It takes two steps. One) insert the reference. Two) make a reference list. It took me a little while to figure out why my Insert Cite command was giving me an error message.)

Apparently you figured it out faster than I did.
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Re: Wiki Grumbles & Reviews

Postby fcoulter » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:47 am

tommus wrote:If you glanced at my profile on the right hand side of the page, you could see that I am native English and B2 in Dutch. I will contribute what I can but I won't be doing that long list of tasks you have for me.

I would suggest you completely abandon your concept of "language islands".


Given the amount of work you've done on them, I had assumed you were going from Dutch to English. Going the other way is rarer.

My concept of Language Islands is hardly my own. It's apparently common in linguistics. I'm not sure I want to ignore the definition used by a bunch of scholars. (Many words and phrases have more than one definition. Normally you're not told that you can only hold one of them.)
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