Copyright and This Forum

Discuss the LLORG's and HTLAL forum's past and its future here.
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basica
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Re: Copyright and This Forum

Postby basica » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:09 am

Takra jenai wrote:
zenmonkey wrote:If you wanted to copy all of HTLAL to your computer - you would be breaking copyright law, a single thread is probably fair use.

And if a thread is fity or five hundred pages long? It's a book.

Who will ever know if you don't tell them?
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Re: Copyright and This Forum

Postby Takra jenai » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:18 am

basica wrote:Who will ever know if you don't tell them?

I'm the law abiding citizen.
I'm somewhat happy that Plato knew nothing about copyright. He copied Socrates's words shamelessly.
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Re: Copyright and This Forum

Postby Takra jenai » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:21 am

Takra jenai wrote:
basica wrote:Who will ever know if you don't tell them?

I'm the law abiding citizen.
I'm somewhat happy that Plato knew nothing about copyright. He copied Socrates's words shamelessly.


Edit
And the monks in the Middle Ages copied plenty of books, they must be in hell now as a punishment. It serves them right.

Edit2
It seems I quoted my own post. But I'm sure I pressed the delete button.
Last edited by Takra jenai on Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Copyright and This Forum

Postby Jar-Ptitsa » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:22 am

zenmonkey wrote:
Google search of the forum works quite well, and yes, some of the archives are of value to me. I recently went back and looked up some discussion on Ivresen's Method and searched for some links on rare languages there.


Yes, Iversen's posts are valuable, and of course by others also.

I meant that the content is not valuable becuase of the forum's technology. In a book, you can see the index and the pages, and chapters. on htlal it seems overwhelming if you want to find something.

Then if you can find it, the posts can't be presented with useful things, for example not bullet points, images etc.

Maybe for me this is more problematic than for others, I don't know. reading use concentration. i can't read long paragraphs and if the writing is in clear sections which are short, sometimes with bullet points, images etc it's much, much better. this things were banned there, also the smilies were banned, but I think that this things make the reading much easier. also in a book, some books have a good font, clear presnetation, but others are totally impossible.


zenmonkey wrote:
Neither the unreliability of the forum nor the difficulty of finding the information is relevant to the copyright - it is intended to protect an author from the potential use of material not whether someone actually does copy. An individual that posts here should have a clear position on whether their words *may* be used elsewhere or not. And whether they *may* be transformed or not.


Yes, it's extremely important.
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Re: Copyright and This Forum

Postby Jar-Ptitsa » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:30 am

diplomaticus wrote:
vogeltje wrote:Have the trillion posts on the old htlal been published or used at all? I don't think that it's important becasue it's a forum. A forum is an unreliable source.

Are the archives on the old htlal valuable? I don't know, but I think that they are not. For sure not in the present location becasue nobody will read such ancient technology. they would prefer a modern place online, or a book for the older things.

If the people who paid FX all the money for the pro status could not search the forum, the others will not.

They most certainly are. It is a shame search sucks so badly as you cannot expect a visitor to know to use google search on it instead. I almost wish I was a moderator there. I'd cull through things starting at the back and working to now to delete everything that wasn't useful (one post threads that never went anywhere, repetitive stuff, etc....) so that, over time, the ratio of useful to fluff was improved and you couldn't help but stumble upon a gem when visiting, haha.


Yes, sorry you are right, it's what I meant.

it's not quick to do this. soem years ago, one time a mod deleted my whole log, and iversen who is a wonderful and great mod, went to the place where my log was deleted, and saved it and sent it to me. But he said that it was some hours to do, a whole evening I think.
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Re: Copyright and This Forum

Postby zenmonkey » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:31 am

Takra jenai wrote:
zenmonkey wrote:If you wanted to copy all of HTLAL to your computer - you would be breaking copyright law, a single thread is probably fair use.

And if a thread is fity or five hundred pages long? It's a book.


Yes, it is.

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you trying to argue that copyright law is confusing and sometimes seems arbitrary? It is.

You can listen to a song on youtube legally (provided the owner has the copyright) but downloading it to listen to it on your device *may* be an issue and posting elsewhere so that others can access/copy it *certainly* is an issue. This is just the way things are.

In some situations intent *may* matter - commercial, educational or self-use *might* be seen differently by the application of the law. In other times, they aren't.
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Re: Copyright and This Forum

Postby zenmonkey » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:37 am

basica wrote:
Takra jenai wrote:
zenmonkey wrote:If you wanted to copy all of HTLAL to your computer - you would be breaking copyright law, a single thread is probably fair use.

And if a thread is fity or five hundred pages long? It's a book.

Who will ever know if you don't tell them?


Which is always a good reason for ignoring laws.

You should see my basement.
Come over.
I have some really nice dandelion wine.
A bugle and a shovel.

(nota bene: I'm not threatening basica, just making reference to "Arsenic and old Lace" where 'who will know if you don't tell them' is one of the central themes.)
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Re: Copyright and This Forum

Postby Takra jenai » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:39 am

zenmonkey wrote:I'm not sure what your point is? Are you trying to argue that copyright law is confusing and sometimes seems arbitrary? It is.

My poit is: 'Where are the limits?
Law by definition is confusing. Otherwise lawers would be jobless and the rich poor.
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Re: Copyright and This Forum

Postby zenmonkey » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:50 am

Takra jenai wrote:
zenmonkey wrote:I'm not sure what your point is? Are you trying to argue that copyright law is confusing and sometimes seems arbitrary? It is.

My poit is: 'Where are the limits?
Law by definition is confusing. Otherwise lawers would be jobless and the rich poor.


If you are interested in the limit, it is complex. Particularly the concept of "Fair Use" which isn't universal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

The reality is that what you do at home, for your own use, is likely never going to be challenged. It's up to you to consider authors right's if you personally copy a work at home. However, in public, and in a forum that is visible to the law and where infringement may lead to severe penalties it becomes relevant to assure that the admin neither puts himself in a difficult position by the behaviour of posters nor that we find ourselves in a situation where effort and content (for example in the wikia) creates issues for users.

Imagine someone develops a method for learning Kuru here and publishes it on the wiki - does it mean that they cannot then sell it? Once published, anyone has the right to share it on CD or in a book? The idea of copyright remains to allow reasonable sharing of content while assuring an authors right to the use and diffusion....

Anyway, I think I've covered the extend of the subject.
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Re: Copyright and This Forum

Postby Takra jenai » Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:09 am

Thank you, zenmonkey.
You've been very patient. I learned a thing or two, so you didn't waste your time.
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