Notification of forum rules' changes?

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Ingaræð
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Re: Notification of forum rules' changes?

Postby Ingaræð » Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:20 pm

rdearman wrote:The notification system you're talking about is system generated, I can't publish to it.

Thanks for the explanation. Although I've been a mod myself elsewhere, the software was slightly different.

We do try to make sure everyone is informed, but we are also human and sometimes people forget, or don't leave the post up long enough, etc. I promise to try harder, but realistically the system doesn't have anyway to force everyone to read something at login, so I'm stuck with the tools I have and my own human faults.

I haven't asked that anyone is forced to read anything. Even when Youtube bombards you with a notice of changes to T&Cs for months before they take effect, no one actually has to read them in order to click 'accept'. And putting rules directly in front of members, with them choosing not to read them, is not what's happening here anyway.

However long it takes to actually amend the forum rules, it doesn't take much more time/effort to copy/paste the change(s) in to a new post, sticky it across the forum and then leave it there for, say, a month. That should be fairly easy for the moderation team to implement. Given current restraints, I think most people would see that as a minimal but reasonable attempt to inform at least currently active members of rule changes.

I think everyone wants the forum to run smoothly. An apparent lack of transparency doesn't facilitate that.
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Re: Notification of forum rules' changes?

Postby rdearman » Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:29 pm

Skynet wrote:
rdearman wrote:Because one method allows the moderators to discuss with them the possibly of keeping some posts which might be helpful to others. Or gives an opportunity for a simple recovery afterwards if they decide they made a mistake and wanted the posts back.

EDIT: One other difference is that if an Administrator deletes the post it is gone forever and cannot be recovered. If you do it it can be recovered. So if you really wanted it deleted, get the moderation team to do it for you.


What if people no longer want to keep any data to help others in the future? Should they be banned because they want to get rid of their data without the intervention of the mods? I understand that Rick is technically not in the EU anymore, but what of people who are under the aegis of the EU's GDPR?

GDPR covers only personal data held on websites about you, or data which could be used to identify you. If you have concerns about GDPR you should read the GDPR policy, which is in the same section as the rules and the FAQ.

If people don't want their posts to be held for future readers we would delete them, and if they request permanent deletions we would do that also. People are not banned for removing their posts, but for doing it in a way which causes issues with the smooth operation of the website. In short if they use deletion-editing to remove the posts then they will be banned because they are breaking the rules. I have given people a mechanism for removal of their posts, if they decide to break the rules instead then they will be punished.

This rule isn't open for negotiation, nor are any of the others. If someone doesn't think they can live with this rule, or the others, then they should leave. This isn't a commercial concern, I'm not bothered about "losing customers".
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Re: Notification of forum rules' changes?

Postby Ingaræð » Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:40 pm

Mods, can any of you address the points I've raised? Will mods be informing members whenever any changes are made to the forum rules?


The Clarification on process for post deletion is pinned as a global announcement, and in 2 days that still only has 378 views. Even if 1 view = 1 member, that would still mean less than 3% of the forum members have read it. A couple of days is clearly not enough time for any announcement to adequately inform members (and if that rate was static, it would actually need 3 months).

If you don't want to leave an announcement up for longer than a couple of days, is it possible to do a site-wide or system PM to all members? Also, in phpBB 3.1 onwards, the official board rules extension can "notify users of board rules changes using the notification system":

boardrules_acp_settings.jpg
boardrules_acp_settings.jpg (62.14 KiB) Viewed 153 times


Or is it official policy that the onus is entirely on members to keep up-to-date with changes to forum rules? In which case, how frequently should we be re-reading the rules?
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Re: Notification of forum rules' changes?

Postby rdearman » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:40 pm

Ingaræð wrote:and in 2 days that still only has 378 views.

See, people don't read announcements even if they are left up.
(and if that rate was static, it would actually need 3 months)

Actually it would take about 18 months or 2 years. We have members who only login every 3-9 months, so do I need to keep the post up so they can see it? I've had complaints about global announcements after a week, let alone 3 months.

The onus is on the forum user to read the rules periodically. But it isn't a massive task. The rules have changed a total of 3 times since this board was started, and one of those was corrections of spelling errors and grammar. I know this because every time the moderation team makes a change to the rules there is about 2-3 months discussion before it happens.

We operate under the premise that most people are intelligent adults and don't need to be babysat. The rules are frequently referenced (I did it yesterday in fact) and people could take that opportunity to review the rules, rather than me forcing global announcements for months.
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Re: Notification of forum rules' changes?

Postby Ingaræð » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:30 pm

rdearman wrote:See, people don't read announcements even if they are left up.

Are you saying that all 14,500-plus members have been on site in that time, and more than 97% have ignored the announcement?

We operate under the premise that most people are intelligent adults and don't need to be babysat. The rules are frequently referenced (I did it yesterday in fact) and people could take that opportunity to review the rules, rather than me forcing global announcements for months.

I agree that was a good opportunity for people to review the rules, and I'm sure that some members will have done so. I haven't seen anyone asking to be babysat. Surely making sure that everyone 'knows the rules of the game' means less work for the mods in the long run?

Mods informing members of rule changes is also pretty standard practice, to the point that the phpBB software provides a quick and simple function for that within the board rules extension that I previously mentioned. Or perhaps just copy/paste any change(s) into a site-wide PM. All members will see it at whatever time they next login, no need for announcements. You haven't addressed that, though - does that mean mods don't want to implement it?
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Re: Notification of forum rules' changes?

Postby rdearman » Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:24 pm

We will look at it before the next system software update. We would have to know the plugin works with next version.
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