Deleting your own posts should not be bannable. All critical information should be in the Wiki.

Discuss the LLORG's and HTLAL forum's past and its future here.
aravinda
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A clarifiaction and a couple of comments

Postby aravinda » Tue May 12, 2020 2:19 am

Speakeasy did NOT delete his posts AFTER the ban. I can vouch for that and I think rdearman can easily verify it himself. Here’s a quote from one of the emails Speakeasy sent to a group of friends including me.

…For the record, as to the Lists of Resources themselves, I reiterate that I had been removing/replacing the contents throughout the entire period from mid-February through end-April. No one complained and I seriously doubt that anyone even noticed. In the “final pass”, I removed them all and stored them on my computer (they’re still there). There were two reasons for my approach: (1) these files are very difficult to read and edit in the draft mode on the forum, and (2) owing to the tearing of the retinas in both my eyes, the repairs to which involved the “stapling” of the folds and tears back in place through hundreds of painful laser pulses, I have lost about 1/3 of my vision; it does not help that I have cataracts. Given that my reduced vision exacerbated the difficulties of attempting to revise the files directly in the LLORG in the Edit mode, I opted to remove them, enlarge them on my computer, edit them, and then replace them. It took an awful lot of juice to create these files and I had absolutely no intention of permanently deleting them.

… I wrote to you about having removed them the very day that I had been banned for one week, mentioning that their absence was an unfortunate side effect. I would assume that Rdearman, as the Administrator, could easily determine that my last edit to these files was BEFORE the ban, and not subsequent to it. As to my ability to delete these files subsequent to the lifting of the one week ban, when I attempted to log in to the LLORG following its scheduled lifting, I could not do so as the ban had been extended by an additional 30 days. So, how could have I deleted the lists of resources in the interim?…


Second, I understand this is a public forum run at no cost to members, and appreciate all the work the administrators and moderators do. However, in my view, that doesn’t take away the members’ right to fair treatment and expression of their views (of course, within set limits that are common to us all). I understand that I’m in no position to question the decision to ban Speakeasy, but as someone who had read the relevant thread before it was “cleaned”, the whole incident gives me the impression that some members are more equal than others.

Finally, I believe in each member’s right to delete their posts. If it is not the case, it should be clear and in writing, so that we can decide beforehand if we want to post or not.
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Re: Deleting your own posts should not be bannable. All critical information should be in the Wiki.

Postby kanewai » Tue May 12, 2020 2:27 am

According to the mods, the dude was banned for being abusive, not for deleting his posts.
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Re: Deleting your own posts should not be bannable. All critical information should be in the Wiki.

Postby neumanc » Tue May 12, 2020 2:33 am

kanewai wrote:According to the mods, the dude was banned for being abusive, not for deleting his posts.
Really?
rdearman wrote:Recently I had to ban a member for a week for causing offence to a number of people. They decided to delete posts which they'd made showing resources as soon as the ban was lifted. Which means they now have a permanent ban.

I would like to point out that editing posts, or deleting your original post doesn't stop me from restoring everything from the automated AWS backup which is done daily, it just makes my life a pain and will guarantee an automatic ban for life if you do it.
Sounds different here.
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aravinda
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Re: Deleting your own posts should not be bannable. All critical information should be in the Wiki.

Postby aravinda » Tue May 12, 2020 2:35 am

kanewai wrote:According to the mods, the dude was banned for being abusive, not for deleting his posts.

rdearman wrote:
"Recently I had to ban a member for a week for causing offence to a number of people. They decided to delete posts which they'd made showing resources as soon as the ban was lifted. Which means they now have a permanent ban." (bold mine)
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 00#p166675
EDIT:
Neumanc had replied while I was editing mine.
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Re: Deleting your own posts should not be bannable. All critical information should be in the Wiki.

Postby kanewai » Tue May 12, 2020 4:59 am

For what it's worth, it looks like the missing posts are now up at the HTLAL site. Here's Burmese:

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... 41274&PN=1
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Re: Deleting your own posts should not be bannable. All critical information should be in the Wiki.

Postby aravinda » Tue May 12, 2020 5:05 am

kanewai wrote:For what it's worth, it looks like the missing posts are now up at the HTLAL site. Here's Burmese:

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... 41274&PN=1

The complete list is here:
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... .asp?FID=3
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Re: Deleting your own posts should not be bannable. All critical information should be in the Wiki.

Postby Lianne » Tue May 12, 2020 5:16 am

kanewai wrote:For what it's worth, it looks like the missing posts are now up at the HTLAL site. Here's Burmese:

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... 41274&PN=1

Wow, I didn't think that site even worked anymore! I just tried logging in and it worked. I could have sworn I've not been able to do that in years.

Anyway I'm just happy I no longer have to worry about being randomly attacked for some innocuous remark I make. *shrug*
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Re: Deleting your own posts should not be bannable. All critical information should be in the Wiki.

Postby Arnav » Tue May 12, 2020 6:40 am

Long time lurker here. I've read Speakeasy's posts before, one in particular that comes to mind was about the use of tu and vous in Canada. He seemed elitist and insulting furthermore throwing a tantrum and harming the community by removing resources and valuable information is enough to make any administrator or moderator furious. These people donate time and other resources for the sake of a larger community only to have a power user try to dismantle it. Power users do not get special treatment in cases where they damage a community. Sad to say but often power users are the most problematic to moderator, speaking from experience ;) Jouer à des jeux stupides gagner des prix stupides .

*jouer à des jeux stupides gagner des prix stupides = play stupid games win stupid prizes
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Re: Deleting your own posts should not be bannable. All critical information should be in the Wiki.

Postby badger » Tue May 12, 2020 7:28 am

Lianne wrote:Anyway I'm just happy I no longer have to worry about being randomly attacked for some innocuous remark I make. *shrug*

I find the Ignore ("foe") function quite useful. ;)
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Re: Deleting your own posts should not be bannable. All critical information should be in the Wiki.

Postby IronMike » Tue May 12, 2020 1:07 pm

Arnav wrote:Long time lurker here. I've read Speakeasy's posts before, one in particular that comes to mind was about the use of tu and vous in Canada. He seemed elitist and insulting furthermore throwing a tantrum and harming the community by removing resources and valuable information is enough to make any administrator or moderator furious. These people donate time and other resources for the sake of a larger community only to have a power user try to dismantle it. Power users do not get special treatment in cases where they damage a community. Sad to say but often power users are the most problematic to moderator, speaking from experience ;) Jouer à des jeux stupides gagner des prix stupides .

*jouer à des jeux stupides gagner des prix stupides = play stupid games win stupid prizes

But, as noted above, Speakeasy didn't "throw[] a tantrum and harm[] the community by removing resources and valuable information." Nor did he "try to dismantle it."

And any one of us can assign "foe" to any other member, which is a great function of this forum (as badger noted) because then you no longer need to see any of that member's posts.
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