Non-HTLAL is too good to let die.

Discuss the LLORG's and HTLAL forum's past and its future here.
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LMAshton
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Re: Non-HTLAL is too good to let die.

Postby LMAshton » Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:06 pm

Brun Ugle wrote:One thing I've seen mentioned several times is that both this and the old forum are mostly comprised of Europeans and North-Americans. It would be nice with more diversity, but then, we have to make it more accessible to those who don't speak English well. Having menus in other languages is a great start, but it would be nice if natives and advanced speakers of other languages posted more content in those languages. It might make the forum more interesting to more people. Maybe we could also then recommend the site to language exchange partners and gradually attract a more international membership.

I also agree that a lot of interesting discussion goes on in logs. I would love to read them all, but then I wouldn't have time to learn anything. What I think we should do is, when we see someone has an interesting idea or method in their log, let them know that they should share it. There are probably plenty of people just puttering along learning languages and quietly posting about it in their logs who don't even realize how great their techniques are. When you see something like that, just give the person a nudge and tell them to post a thread on the technique where everyone will see it. That way we could perhaps generate more open and lively discussion like in the old days.

I'd also like to see static content, maybe language guides and clear descriptions of techniques. The wiki is OK, but the descriptions are usually very brief and superficial. But going to HTLAL to find out something will have you stuck in an endless web of threads, as I discovered when I tried to find out more about how to use Assimil.


New here. I came here because I'm learning a couple of languages and have more I'd like to learn, and I'm interested in learning how to do that learning more effectively. My method at present is rather more like how I "learned" German or French in school - it takes forever and fluency will be hard won. Then I found a course on Udemy where a guy talked about shadowing, double learning, and other techniques, and that was my first hint at a better way, that better way being something I'm still figuring out.

And that's why the paragraph about the logs is particularly interesting to me. I had not thought of looking into the language logs as a means of finding out what kinds of techniques I could use to improve my learning. It's obvious in a way, and yet... It would be nice if the gold nuggets were easier to find.

I found HTLAL first, and didn't realize that these two forums were somewhat related. HTLAL I found rather... ancient, but it had some good information. Difficult to find and a pain to wade through. Here, I'm still figuring out where to find what I want.


As for paragraph 1 - yes, yes, yes! I'm from Canada but live in Asia, married to a polyglot Asian. It's really easy to notice the lack of diverse backgrounds when you're in one. My husband isn't interested in a language learning forum, probably because he's already figured out how to do the polyglot thing in a way that works for him.
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Re: Non-HTLAL is too good to let die.

Postby Xmmm » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:13 pm

Hi LMAshton,

I don't think they could put "official HTLAL method of language learning" up on an FAQ without triggering endless controversy.

And also the details change. People who are trying to learn French are buried in options ( a great problem to have but still a problem). They have Assimil French, FSI french, French in Action, lingvist.io, www.litteratureaudio.com, etc. Whereas people who are learning Albanian have to be content with the backs of cereal boxes (it seems).

So it does seem the best approach is to post "I want to learn language X. What is the best way?" and then follow the advice of whoever sounds like they share your interests or whoever you think has their act together.
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Re: Non-HTLAL is too good to let die.

Postby emk » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:35 pm

Xmmm wrote:I don't think they could put "official HTLAL method of language learning" up on an FAQ without triggering endless controversy.

We actually have a FAQ! It provides a list of language-learning techniques that are popular on the forum. We try to cover effective methods for a variety of different tastes.

And if none of those seem like a good fit, yes, people here love answering questions.
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Re: Non-HTLAL is too good to let die.

Postby Xmmm » Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:46 pm

emk wrote:We actually have a FAQ!.


Wow! :)

I stand corrected ...
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Re: Non-HTLAL is too good to let die.

Postby Serpent » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:28 pm

There's also a basic FAQ on the main page of language-learners.org, which is neutral enough that any disagreements are basically nitpicking.
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Re: Non-HTLAL is too good to let die.

Postby LMAshton » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:59 am

Xmmm wrote:Hi LMAshton,

I don't think they could put "official HTLAL method of language learning" up on an FAQ without triggering endless controversy.

And also the details change. People who are trying to learn French are buried in options ( a great problem to have but still a problem). They have Assimil French, FSI french, French in Action, lingvist.io, http://www.litteratureaudio.com, etc. Whereas people who are learning Albanian have to be content with the backs of cereal boxes (it seems).

So it does seem the best approach is to post "I want to learn language X. What is the best way?" and then follow the advice of whoever sounds like they share your interests or whoever you think has their act together.


Yeah, I wasn't looking for a One Ring That Binds Them sort of answer, but more of a collection of this works, and so does this, and have you tried this, and why not that? sort of thing. :)

And the same goes for learning Plautdeutsch and Sinhalese, both of which are on my list of languages I'd love to learn. I've already figured out I'm pretty much going to have to create my own course work for both, although luckily, I do have access to native speakers in both languages, so that helps.
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LMAshton
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Re: Non-HTLAL is too good to let die.

Postby LMAshton » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:00 am

emk wrote:We actually have a FAQ! It provides a list of language-learning techniques that are popular on the forum. We try to cover effective methods for a variety of different tastes.

And if none of those seem like a good fit, yes, people here love answering questions.

Thank you ever so much! I foresee much reading in my future. :D
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Re: Non-HTLAL is too good to let die.

Postby Montmorency » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:40 pm

LMAshton wrote:
Xmmm wrote:Hi LMAshton,

I don't think they could put "official HTLAL method of language learning" up on an FAQ without triggering endless controversy.

And also the details change. People who are trying to learn French are buried in options ( a great problem to have but still a problem). They have Assimil French, FSI french, French in Action, lingvist.io, http://www.litteratureaudio.com, etc. Whereas people who are learning Albanian have to be content with the backs of cereal boxes (it seems).

So it does seem the best approach is to post "I want to learn language X. What is the best way?" and then follow the advice of whoever sounds like they share your interests or whoever you think has their act together.


Yeah, I wasn't looking for a One Ring That Binds Them sort of answer, but more of a collection of this works, and so does this, and have you tried this, and why not that? sort of thing. :)


You deserve at least one "like" for that witticism. Croeso i'r fforwm. Welcome to the forum. :-)
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Re: Non-HTLAL is too good to let die.

Postby reineke » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:20 am

smallwhite wrote:What is this website about?

Benny is about speaking fast.
Laoshu is about learning fast.
Luca is about learning well.
Richard is about learning lots.

And we? What is this website about?

About learning slowly, something is better than nothing, about fun over results, and?

Is it something attractive?

Attractive or not, are we conveying that image properly?


As a group we've always had some very differing, sometimes opposing views. At its best HTLAL was closer to a Greek agora than a Roman forum and for the most part you did not have to sneak out at night to draw dirty graffiti of Caesar (although we had those moments too). It was a place where Diogenes could live freely naked in his barrel.

Benny, Khatz, and Steve are trying to sell modern methods. HTLAL was a place to discuss their approaches to language learning and many other language-related things. I don't see us ever sitting together and coming up with a concrete, single approach. It would be like Hydra wearing a single hat.
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Re: Non-HTLAL is too good to let die.

Postby sjintje » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:19 pm

I gave you a heart just for the hydra line.
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