I'm using Hugo French in 3 Months, and in week 8 conditionals are covered. The notes don't mention anything about travailler, but in the exercises it appears travailler does not follow the normal pattern. Examples they have are je travaillais, vous travailliez, but elle travaillerait.
I've checked several sites which give French verb conjugations, and all four sites I checked disagree. All four use the full infinitive travailler for every person. However, Google translate agrees with the examples from Hugo, and the only form it recognizes as having the er is the feminine of the 3rd person singular. In other cases, I get the "did you mean?" message.
So which is correct? Are the conditional forms of travailler irregular? Am I missing some rule?
FR conditional of travailler
-
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 871
- Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:12 pm
- Location: UK
- Languages: Speaks: English (N), Hindi (A2-B1)
Learning: The above, plus French (A2-B1), German (A1), Ancient Greek (?), Sanskrit (beginner) - Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19785
- x 2888
- Contact:
FR conditional of travailler
0 x
Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien (roughly, the perfect is the enemy of the good)
French SC Books: (0/5000 pp)
French SC Films: (0/9000 mins)
French SC Books: (0/5000 pp)
French SC Films: (0/9000 mins)
-
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 984
- Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:57 am
- Location: Paris, France
- Languages: Native: French
Intermediate: English, Russian, Italian
Tourist : Breton, Greek, Chinese, Japanese, German, Spanish, Latin - Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=1524
- x 2172
Re: FR conditional of travailler
It's imparfait. Travailler is regular.jeffers wrote: je travaillais, vous travailliez
Conditionnel Présent
je travaillerais
tu travaillerais
il travaillerait
nous travaillerions
vous travailleriez
ils travailleraient
3 x
-
- Black Belt - 4th Dan
- Posts: 4988
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
- Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
- x 17753
Re: FR conditional of travailler
Conditional is pretty irregularity free, the forms you mention are imparfait.
Could you share some of the example sentences, please?
The problem may be, especially once you drag google translate into this, that foreign grammars don't work like ths-L1-verb-form=that-L2-verb-form. So, Hugo may be just giving you a mix of sentences with and without conditional already. Or sentences with imparfait and conditional. (Si j'étais à sa place, je demanderais.) Did you find more verbs in imparfait in the exercises?
Could you share some of the example sentences, please?
The problem may be, especially once you drag google translate into this, that foreign grammars don't work like ths-L1-verb-form=that-L2-verb-form. So, Hugo may be just giving you a mix of sentences with and without conditional already. Or sentences with imparfait and conditional. (Si j'étais à sa place, je demanderais.) Did you find more verbs in imparfait in the exercises?
1 x
-
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 871
- Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:12 pm
- Location: UK
- Languages: Speaks: English (N), Hindi (A2-B1)
Learning: The above, plus French (A2-B1), German (A1), Ancient Greek (?), Sanskrit (beginner) - Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19785
- x 2888
- Contact:
Re: FR conditional of travailler
The example sentences from the Hugo book are:
Qu’est-ce que vous feriez, si vous ne travailliez pas?
Si je ne travaillais pas, je peindrais et je dessinerais.
Qu’est-ce que Nicole ferait, si elle parlait français?
Si elle parlait français, elle travaillerait comme interprète.
These are both from the exercises for the conditional. Have they simply made an error in the first of these two examples? Or even worse, used imparfait in a section about conditional?
Qu’est-ce que vous feriez, si vous ne travailliez pas?
Si je ne travaillais pas, je peindrais et je dessinerais.
Qu’est-ce que Nicole ferait, si elle parlait français?
Si elle parlait français, elle travaillerait comme interprète.
These are both from the exercises for the conditional. Have they simply made an error in the first of these two examples? Or even worse, used imparfait in a section about conditional?
1 x
Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien (roughly, the perfect is the enemy of the good)
French SC Books: (0/5000 pp)
French SC Films: (0/9000 mins)
French SC Books: (0/5000 pp)
French SC Films: (0/9000 mins)
-
- Black Belt - 4th Dan
- Posts: 4988
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
- Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
- x 17753
Re: FR conditional of travailler
jeffers wrote:The example sentences from the Hugo book are:
Qu’est-ce que vous feriez, si vous ne travailliez pas?
Si je ne travaillais pas, je peindrais et je dessinerais.
Qu’est-ce que Nicole ferait, si elle parlait français?
Si elle parlait français, elle travaillerait comme interprète.
These are both from the exercises for the conditional. Have they simply made an error in the first of these two examples? Or even worse, used imparfait in a section about conditional?
No mistake, rather lack of explanation in Hugo, I suppose. This is a normal way to make conditional sentences with hypothesis.
here are two pages with basic explanation, but there are surely better ones out there, I didn't spend too much time on it, I hope these will suffice for now. Most grammar books explain the issue.
http://www.francaisfacile.com/exercices ... -28092.php
http://grammaire.reverso.net/1_1_18_La_ ... emps.shtml
In the Hugo examples: The person asked in sentence one does work and therefore doesn't paint. He is basically being asked "if you were so lucky, won a lottery, and didn' have to work, what would you do?", in thesecond one Nicole cannot speak French. If she could, she would work as an interpreter
3 x
- smallwhite
- Black Belt - 2nd Dan
- Posts: 2386
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:55 am
- Location: Hong Kong
- Languages: Native: Cantonese;
Good: English, French, Spanish, Italian;
Mediocre: Mandarin, German, Swedish, Dutch.
. - x 4879
Re: FR conditional of travailler
if (...) THEN {...}
if (...) THEN { I would...}
if (...) THEN { conditional mood }
( si vous ne travailliez pas ) { Qu’est-ce que vous feriez }
( Si je ne travaillais pas ) { je peindrais et je dessinerais }
( si elle parlait français ) { Qu’est-ce que Nicole ferait }
( Si elle parlait français ) { elle travaillerait comme interprète }
You don't say
if ( I would be a millionaire ) THEN { I would study French grammar all day }
if (...) THEN { I would...}
if (...) THEN { conditional mood }
( si vous ne travailliez pas ) { Qu’est-ce que vous feriez }
( Si je ne travaillais pas ) { je peindrais et je dessinerais }
( si elle parlait français ) { Qu’est-ce que Nicole ferait }
( Si elle parlait français ) { elle travaillerait comme interprète }
You don't say
if ( I would be a millionaire ) THEN { I would study French grammar all day }
3 x
Dialang or it didn't happen.
-
- Black Belt - 3rd Dan
- Posts: 3534
- Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:04 am
- Location: Scotland
- Languages: English(N)
Advanced: French,Spanish, Scottish Gaelic
Intermediate: Italian, Catalan, Corsican
Basic: Welsh
Dabbling: Polish, Russian etc - x 8809
- Contact:
Re: FR conditional of travailler
jeffers wrote:The example sentences from the Hugo book are:
Qu’est-ce que vous feriez, si vous ne travailliez pas?
Si je ne travaillais pas, je peindrais et je dessinerais.
The answer's in the English translation:
What would you do if you weren't working?
If I wasn't working, I'd paint and draw.
So in English, the bold is conditional, the italic is past. The French pattern is exactly the same.
0 x
-
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 985
- Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:01 pm
- Location: Canada
- Languages: French (N), English (N), Spanish (C2 Cert.), German (B2 Cert)
- x 2373
Re: FR conditional of travailler
Cainntear wrote:jeffers wrote:The example sentences from the Hugo book are:
Qu’est-ce que vous feriez, si vous ne travailliez pas?
Si je ne travaillais pas, je peindrais et je dessinerais.
The answer's in the English translation:
What would you do if you weren't working?
If I wasn't working, I'd paint and draw.
So in English, the bold is conditional, the italic is past. The French pattern is exactly the same.
No, this is poor advice. The French pattern is definitely not the same.The French imparfait in italics in the examples above is not the past tense. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that the second example is poor English.
What smallwhite has so correctly pointed out is that this construction in French is used to express hypothesis. It has nothing to do with the past. In fact, after "if" we use the subjunctive to describe a hypothetical situation contrary to reality.
If I were you, I would take the job offer.
If I weren't working, I'd paint and draw.
This is different from talking about actions in the past with if.
If I wasn't working at the time, it was because of health problems.
In this example we use the indicative mood because we are talking about real events in the past.
0 x
-
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 985
- Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:01 pm
- Location: Canada
- Languages: French (N), English (N), Spanish (C2 Cert.), German (B2 Cert)
- x 2373
Re: FR conditional of travailler
s_allard wrote:Cainntear wrote:jeffers wrote:The example sentences from the Hugo book are:
Qu’est-ce que vous feriez, si vous ne travailliez pas?
Si je ne travaillais pas, je peindrais et je dessinerais.
The answer's in the English translation:
What would you do if you weren't working?
If I wasn't working, I'd paint and draw.
So in English, the bold is conditional, the italic is past. The French pattern is exactly the same.
No, this is poor advice. The French pattern is definitely not the same.The French imparfait in italics in the examples above is not the past tense. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that the second example is poor English.
What smallwhite and cavesa have so correctly pointed out is that this construction in French is used to express hypothesis. It has nothing to do with the past. In fact, after "if" we use the subjunctive to describe a hypothetical situation contrary to reality.
If I were you, I would take the job offer.
If I weren't working, I'd paint and draw.
This is different from talking about actions in the past with if.
If I wasn't working at the time, it was because of health problems.
In this example we use the indicative mood because we are talking about real events in the past.
0 x
-
- Black Belt - 4th Dan
- Posts: 4988
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
- Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
- x 17753
Re: FR conditional of travailler
I agree with s_allard here, learning this stuff by looking for English equivalents can be very misleading.
I recommend using any good French grammar resource and studying the chapters on conditions and hypothesis. It is easier than it looks, and you're likely to use this all the time.
I recommend using any good French grammar resource and studying the chapters on conditions and hypothesis. It is easier than it looks, and you're likely to use this all the time.
2 x
Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests