Proven ways to get a native-like accent

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Re: Proven ways to get a native-like accent

Postby Serpent » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:40 am

Alphathon wrote:Personally I'm happy enough with #3, but I think some people strive to appear native so that they are treated as a native. I dare say that to a degree the benefits depend on which language you're learning (some cultures are more welcoming to outsiders than others).

As English speakers we're in a pretty privileged position in that regard as we have both a large number of pretty varied native accents and speak a global language and so encounter non-natives speaking our language at high levels relatively frequently (even if its only in the media). Other languages' cultures may not be so forgiving.
Very true. I used to want to speak English like a native, but then I realized I'd have to imitate a specific accent.

Besides, if you've been fooled by a non-native speaker, you may never find that out ;)
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Re: Proven ways to get a native-like accent

Postby Montmorency » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:41 am

Serpent wrote:Very true. I used to want to speak English like a native, but then I realized I'd have to imitate a specific accent.


To be honest (unless you were planning to move to a specific part of the Anglophone world) your only realistic choices are British RP or Standard General American. And I think one would naturally gravitate towards whichever one listened to the most.
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Re: Proven ways to get a native-like accent

Postby Adrianslont » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:30 am

Montmorency wrote:
Serpent wrote:Very true. I used to want to speak English like a native, but then I realized I'd have to imitate a specific accent.


To be honest (unless you were planning to move to a specific part of the Anglophone world) your only realistic choices are British RP or Standard General American. And I think one would naturally gravitate towards whichever one listened to the most.


I'm wondering what you mean by "realistic choices", Montmorency?

Certainly, they are the choices with the most prestige and have the most models available in terms of media.... but these days, you could basically choose ANY variety or dialect of English and shoot for that if you wish.

Phonetic work with a few seasons of an Australian soap or a sitcom set in working class Manchester or Singapore and those particular worlds are your oyster!

I remember being intrigued by young French women working in the tourism industry in Brittany some years ago - their accents would have been described as "common as muck" by some. I wondered how they came about those particular accents.
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Re: Proven ways to get a native-like accent

Postby Serpent » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:53 am

I'm actually much more used to the British RP than any other accent, but wouldn't it make me a very obvious non-native? Unless I passed as royal :mrgreen:
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Re: Proven ways to get a native-like accent

Postby tastyonions » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:49 am

I speak online sometimes with a woman from Morocco who has a very good but not quite native accent when she speaks English. The funny thing is that she has a noticeable Texas twang to her English, despite never having been to the United States: apparently when she started learning the language she spent tons of time practicing with a guy from Texas. :-)
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Re: Proven ways to get a native-like accent

Postby Alphathon » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:48 pm

Serpent wrote:I'm actually much more used to the British RP than any other accent, but wouldn't it make me a very obvious non-native? Unless I passed as royal :mrgreen:
Not really. Bear in mind that RP isn't a single accent - RP as used by newsreaders etc is not the same as the pronunciation used by the Queen, but both are considered to be RP. The general form used by newsreaders is seen as the neutral standard accent of English English and is fairly common throughout England (particularly southern England) and not uncommon in other parts of the UK. It generally doesn't stand out except when contrasted with strong regional accents. Still, whether you want to use it is up to you and I wouldn't say it's any better or worse than having a mild foreign accent. The only thing to really be aware of is that RP is generally seen as the accent of the middle and upper classes (working class people are far more likely to have a regional accent) whereas a slight foreign accent carries no such connotation (although may of course carry others, particularly by the xenophobic).
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Re: Proven ways to get a native-like accent

Postby Serpent » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:49 pm

Indeed, the fact that any British accent has some class correlation is off-putting for me. Besides, afaiu RP requires being closer to perfection, otherwise you're just a very good foreigner.
I would mostly just like to sound generally European rather than Russian/Slavic. My Canadian friend said I sound Iberian :D And well, I did have English (and general) phonetics classes at uni 8-) Though tbh I think sometimes I'm harder to understand than someone who isn't too concerned about the fluidity and minor details.
Oh and one problem with the idea that you work until you develop the best possible accent is that it takes time, and the returns diminish as soon as your speech is intelligible. I still care about improving my English (especially the vocab and the pronunciation of the* words I've only seen/used in writing), but it's obviously not the highest priority language for me.
*and accepting that if "the" is needed, it's needed, no matter how clumsy it looks to me :P
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Re: Proven ways to get a native-like accent

Postby tarvos » Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:12 pm

The thing is, though, that if you misuse "the", it will look clumsy to native speakers.
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Re: Proven ways to get a native-like accent

Postby Montmorency » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:59 pm

Serpent wrote:Indeed, the fact that any British accent has some class correlation is off-putting for me. Besides, afaiu RP requires being closer to perfection, otherwise you're just a very good foreigner.
I would mostly just like to sound generally European rather than Russian/Slavic. My Canadian friend said I sound Iberian :D And well, I did have English (and general) phonetics classes at uni 8-) Though tbh I think sometimes I'm harder to understand than someone who isn't too concerned about the fluidity and minor details.
Oh and one problem with the idea that you work until you develop the best possible accent is that it takes time, and the returns diminish as soon as your speech is intelligible. I still care about improving my English (especially the vocab and the pronunciation of the* words I've only seen/used in writing), but it's obviously not the highest priority language for me.
*and accepting that if "the" is needed, it's needed, no matter how clumsy it looks to me :P


Just to make it clear: I was not saying that you should try to imitate RP (or anything else), but that if you wanted to imitate an English accent, then the two I mentioned were the only realistic choices, and I stand by that. (We can go into why, if you like, but I won't do so here).

However, while admitting that there is a class issue with British accents, that's much more to do with British society, and needn't worry you in the slightest unless you decide to come to live here. George Bernard Shaw wrote
It is impossible for an Englishman to open his mouth without making some other Englishman hate or despise him.

http://www.bartleby.com/138/0.html

If that was ever true, it is much less true nowadays, although there is a grain of truth in it. But as has been said, RP is more like a spectrum, and most RP speakers sound nothing like the queen. Some have obviously "public school" accents, and examples of this would be Jeremy Paxman (BBC), Jon Snow (Channel 4), or perhaps Jeremy Irons.

I don't think aiming for a version of RP would involve aiming for perfection, but more like neutrality. I was trying to think of a more "neutral" sounding RP speaker, and first thought of Alan Rickman, but then I noticed a London (not-quite cockney)-ish twang, so I wouldn't call that neutral either, but in this piece with Kate Winslet, Kate actually sounds like my idea of "neutral" RP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfGrSRcrj84

The main danger of aiming for a neutral accent (and it would be similar with General American I think) is that it might end up sounding a bit bland. However, that is still a lot safer than learning some more obscure regional accent, with all the risks that entails, and I don't think I need to spell them out.
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Re: Proven ways to get a native-like accent

Postby Serpent » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:23 pm

tarvos wrote:The thing is, though, that if you misuse "the", it will look clumsy to native speakers.
I know, it's just that my issue has always been not using the articles enough. BTW I'm always happy to get corrections :)
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