Le groupe français 2016 - 2023 Les Voyageurs

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Speakeasy
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Speakeasy » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:40 pm

Carmody wrote:Since I am still way down at the A2 level for French, I have everything to learn ... now I am also working at learning idioms. (And of course dictionaries don't always help with the idioms.) ...
As independent learners, we will all develop our own approaches and, over time, will likely make changes to the ways in which we learn/practice our L2. Having said that, my advice concerning idioms/colloquialisms would be that you absorb the ones that have been included in your regular course materials (such as Assimil) and postpone any concentrated efforts at learning large numbers of these savoury expressions until you have achieved a solid Intermediate level. In my experience, although idioms/colloquialisms do, indeed, crop up in conversations and in literature, it is extremely difficult to predict "which ones" you will encounter. Thus, you could spend a lot time and energy trying to memorize expressions that you may encounter only very infrequently and, lacking reinforcement, you will simply forget them. There is also the matter of the "context" in which idioms/colloquialisms occur, which can have variable effects on their meaning: no difference, a small but important nuance, something radically different. Uh, meiner Meinung nach!
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Carmody
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Carmody » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:16 pm

Many thanks; an interesting point.

But I do like: "entre loup et chien" which we don't have in English.
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Speakeasy
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Speakeasy » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:41 pm

Carmody wrote: ... But I do like: "entre loup et chien" which we don't have in English.
I still remember the first time someone said "tirer les vers du nez à quelqu'un" to me. Although I did not understand the idiomatic meaning of this expression, I could easily visualize the literal gest. So, my reaction was: "WHAT???, that's absolutely disgusting!!!" And then, when it was explained to me, I realized that an English expression that is sometimes used as an equivalent, "to make someone spill their guts", which I had learned in my childhood, had accepted, and employed without any sense of revulsion, was hardly more elegant!
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Carmody
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Carmody » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:51 pm

That's a good one; I never heard it.

Does anyone have a good long list of French synonyms? I don't seem to be able to find one, but I love those too. ;)
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Fortheo
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Fortheo » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:43 am

Carmody wrote:That's a good one; I never heard it.

Does anyone have a good long list of French synonyms? I don't seem to be able to find one, but I love those too. ;)


Johan from français authentique did a podcast on that expression a while ago:

https://www.francaisauthentique.com/tirer-vers-nez/
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Voxel
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Voxel » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:00 pm

Arnaud wrote:I don't think you can generalise like that. It depends of how "thick" the accent is. As a counter-exemple I can find regional french accents on YouTube that are as difficult to understand as the video you posted.

Are you kidding? Gascon accent is very easy to understand.

blaurebell wrote:Most of it doesn't even sound remotely like French :o

I agree.
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emk
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby emk » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:48 pm

I've removed a bunch of posts about the French election that had nothing to do with language learning. Please let's try to avoid discussing French politics. Politics lead to flame wars, and flame wars lead to bad feelings and work for the moderators.

As always, the forum rules are posted for anybody who'd like to read them:

Religion and politics: Some families have a rule that says, "No political or religious arguments during holiday dinner." This forum has a similar rule year-round, for much the same reasons. We have people here from all over the world, with incredibly diverse political and religious views, and we all get along much better if we avoid these subjects.

If the politics or religion is genuinely related to language learning, then you have a small amount of leeway—as long as people remain respectful and refrain from fighting. But if a moderator asks you to stop, please stop. You can fight about politics and religion on almost any other site on the Internet. This site is for language learning.

As we've recently discussed, we're allowing less grey area on this rule than usual, because there were recently a lot of political threads, and once they start, political threads tend to spread.

If you have a legitimate personal question that involves language learning, and which involves politics to some extent, please feel free to contact a moderator if you're in doubt about whether it's OK to post. Thank you.
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Voxel
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Voxel » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:09 pm

Carmody wrote:Many thanks; an interesting point.

But I do like: "entre loup et chien" which we don't have in English.

We say: "Entre chien et loup". It's very rarely used and I didn't know what it meant.

Speakeasy wrote:
Carmody wrote: ... But I do like: "entre loup et chien" which we don't have in English.
I still remember the first time someone said "tirer les vers du nez à quelqu'un" to me. Although I did not understand the idiomatic meaning of this expression, I could easily visualize the literal gest. So, my reaction was: "WHAT???, that's absolutely disgusting!!!" And then, when it was explained to me, I realized that an English expression that is sometimes used as an equivalent, "to make someone spill their guts", which I had learned in my childhood, had accepted, and employed without any sense of revulsion, was hardly more elegant!

I like an English expression with the same verb: "It's no use crying over spilt milk." A French equivalent is: "Ce qui est fait est fait" or "Inutile de se lamenter".
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Carmody
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Carmody » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:14 pm

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Ani
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Ani » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:14 pm

Carmody wrote:I am finding a listing of French synonyms a bit difficult to come by

What would you be looking for in a list of synonyms? A short list? Almost every word has oodles of synonyms. Larousse publishes a dictionary of synonyms and am sure there are plenty of others as well.
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But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.


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