Le groupe français 2016 - 2023 Les Voyageurs

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
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PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
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Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby PeterMollenburg » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:36 pm

jeffers wrote:
Xenops wrote:
DaveBee wrote:
Ani wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:Thanks for this. Just for the record USA Netflix does not offer the Star Trek franchises with French audio or offer French subtitles.
A quick check found Spiral with French audio but English subtitles. Perhaps there are more French programs. Disclaimer: I rarely use Netflix and its search engine leaves a lot to be desired, so maybe I just missed the Star Trek programs.


There are no French subtitles for Spiral/Engrenages afaik, at all, anywhere. The best way to search Netflix is by using a 3rd party search site like UNOGS.com or instantwatcher.com. You can filter by audio or subtitle language that way (or both) to find things that might suit you.
The french packaged DVDs appear to have french sub-titles, "Engrenages - Intégrale".


Here's a question for you all: do you have to deal with region when playing DVD's from other countries? I know that for me to play foreign DVD's on my computer, I would have to permanently switch to that region's specifications, or something. :? Would Canadian DVD's be an issue for Americans?


As an American with a British wife, who has also lived in India, I have DVDs from all over the place. Unfortunately there are few solutions to watching on a computer other than switching the region, which can only be done a few times. In my house I set my wife's laptop to play US discs and my laptop to play European discs.

However, many DVD players have simple fixes since the manufacturer makes the same player for different regions. The simplest fix is found on Philips DVD players: you just type a 4-number pin on the remote, and then type your region. You can even choose "0" for region free and play any disc.


You can find cheap DVD players in Australia that are not region specific (ie you can play any DVD in them from any region). I thought this was relatively common elsewhere too, but I guess not.
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Carmody
Black Belt - 1st Dan
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Location: NYC, NY
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French (B1)
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Carmody » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:24 pm

Here are some web sites I found by just going to YouTube and typing in francais +vlog; people may find the results useful:

New York en VF - Echappées belles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LzjOTqkH4c

Paris Travel Guide !!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqCcM2sgTQw

Bloqués, si près du BUT !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bITgAL43oM8

and for those of you who are a bit more advanced:

Advanced French class
Language City
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUBuIJuKptw
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Speakeasy
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Speakeasy » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:37 pm

Some readers of this sub-forum might find a recent article from "La Presse" interesting, amusing, and even somewhat educational, if only for having been introduced to the word "enfirouapeur."

First, a brief biography of the journalist, Yves Boisvert:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yves_Boisvert_(journaliste)

Second, his most recent editorial in "La Presse"
http://www.lapresse.ca/debats/chroniques/yves-boisvert/201704/11/01-5087697-rire-tres-fort-du-systeme.php

Third, his characterisation of the individual as "un enfirouapeur financier"
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/enfirouaper

https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Discussion:enfirouaper

http://www.laparlure.com/terme/enfirouaper/

http://www.dufrancaisaufrancais.com/tataouiner-epivarder-enfirouaper-mots-quebecois/
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Voxel
Yellow Belt
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Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:49 am
Location: France
Languages: French (N), English (I), Russian (?), Japanese (?)
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Voxel » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:39 pm

Speakeasy wrote:Some readers of this sub-forum might find a recent article from "La Presse" interesting, amusing, and even somewhat educational, if only for having been introduced to the word "enfirouapeur."

Do you learn Quebec French rather than Standard French?
The word "enfirouâper" doesn't exist in Standard French.
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Speakeasy
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Speakeasy » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:51 pm

Voxel wrote: Do you learn Quebec French rather than Standard French? The word "enfirouâper" doesn't exist in Standard French.
En guise de réponse, I have posted, below, an extract from my comments on learning French verbs.
Speakeasy wrote: ... Rote learning: committing to memory basic elements of a large body of knowledge can free the mind to contemplate the higher-ordered concepts. Anecdotal evidence: some six decades ago, this was precisely how verbs were taught in the French classes that I attended. At the beginning of every class, students were required to write down the complete conjugations of selected verbs. No one other than the instructor spoke during the classes, students were only rarely called on to speak and, for all practical purposes, the focus of course was on the written language. I hated it! Fast forward: having never spoken the language, some 25 years later, at my request, my employer transferred me to a small company-town in the Québec interior where no one other than myself spoke English. I learned to speak the language (sur le tas) in the workplace. Not surprisingly, the first few months were quite a struggle; however I distinctly recall recognizing all of the verb conjugations as I encountered them "in real life". Despite the absence of any French language training/studying during the intervening years, I found the verb tenses really quite easy, so much so that my colleagues marvelled at the quick progress that I made. I ascribe the “advantage” that I enjoyed to the rote-learning of my youth. So then, yes, it works ... I would underscore that I had somehow retained much of the French grammar of my youth, which greatly facilitated my learning of the spoken language ...
So then, I learned to read and write "Standard French" at around the A2-B1 level and, many years later, I learned to speak the language at the C2 level with an "Anglo-Québécois" accent; my very large battery of colloquialisms is derived from having lived in "La Belle Province" for the past thirty-odd years.

As to the question of "Québec French" versus "Standard French", in my experience, the major differences between the two variants of the language are matters of either pronunciation or of colloquial usage. Similar differences existence in English, Spanish, and Portuguese in the countries where these languages originated and in those where, through colonisation, they were adopted and where they continued to evolve. In my experience, native speakers of either variant can easily spot their "linguistic cousin"; however, I have never met either a Québécois or a Français who, blessed of goodwill, could not understand one another quite easily. Nonetheless, I have often heard members of both groups express surprise and amusement at each other's regional colloquialisms.
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Voxel
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Location: France
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Voxel » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:59 am

Speakeasy wrote:As to the question of "Québec French" versus "Standard French", in my experience, the major differences between the two variants of the language are matters of either pronunciation or of colloquial usage. Similar differences existence in English, Spanish, and Portuguese in the countries where these languages originated and in those where, through colonisation, they were adopted and where they continued to evolve. In my experience, native speakers of either variant can easily spot their "linguistic cousin"; however, I have never met either a Québécois or a Français who, blessed of goodwill, could not understand one another quite easily. Nonetheless, I have often heard members of both groups express surprise and amusement at each other's regional colloquialisms.

Quebec French accent is an exception, French people don't understand Quebec French but understand easily all the other accents.
If a French native speaker tell you that he understands Quebec French I suppose it's polished or he lives in Quebec (or he's a liar).
TV shows from Quebec broadcast in France are always with subtitles.

Example, I don't understand what they say except a few sentences :
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Arnaud
Blue Belt
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Arnaud » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:21 am

Voxel wrote:Quebec French accent is an exception, French people don't understand Quebec French but understand easily all the other accents.
I don't think you can generalise like that. It depends of how "thick" the accent is. As a counter-exemple I can find regional french accents on YouTube that are as difficult to understand as the video you posted. Exemple :


The quebec accent is no more difficult to understand as any regional accent if it's not too thick. Here's a video that is really clear to me, for exemple:


As for canadian programs on the french TV, there are generally not subtitled for the simple reason that they are generally not broadcasted. As simple as that (but I rarely watch Tv, so perhaps there has been improvements on that side since the last time I watched it...)
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Speakeasy
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Speakeasy » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:27 am

Voxel wrote: ... If a French native speaker tell you that he understands Quebec French I suppose ... he's a liar.
... or he's possessed of a good ear and goodwill.
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blaurebell
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Location: Spain
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby blaurebell » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:15 pm

Voxel wrote:Example, I don't understand what they say except a few sentences :


Not a native myself and I think I understood like 4 sentences in the whole video. Yikes! Most of it doesn't even sound remotely like French :o

Arnaud wrote:I don't think you can generalise like that. It depends of how "thick" the accent is. As a counter-exemple I can find regional french accents on YouTube that are as difficult to understand as the video you posted. Exemple :


I understand all of this even though the sound quality is less than amazing. However, this might actually be because this is an accent from a region not too far from where I live in Spain (Basque Country). I probably hear a lot of tourists on the street speaking with similar accents.

Arnaud wrote:The quebec accent is no more difficult to understand as any regional accent if it's not too thick. Here's a video that is really clear to me, for exemple:


I had to strain a little to understand it, but apart from the occasional word I regrettably got everything. Her recommendations are the worst of the worst of nutritional advice :roll:

For comparison sake: Bavarian and Swiss German is subtitled on German TV and Scottish is subtitled on British TV when it gets too extreme. That there is a comprehension barrier between certain accents within the same language is relatively normal. I once had to translate between an Austrian friend of mine and a bus driver from Saxony. They couldn't understand each other at all! I myself don't understand a word of thick Bavarian or Swiss German, but do a little better with some Austrian accents. My dad doesn't understand Austrians at all when they speak to each other.
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Carmody
Black Belt - 1st Dan
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2017 Les Voyageurs

Postby Carmody » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:32 pm

Since I am still way down at the A2 level for French, I have everything to learn. Reading is a great help but.........if I don't know my idioms then that deminishes the productivity of the reading effort, so, now I am also working at learning idioms. (And of course dictionaries don't always help with the idioms.)

Just in case anyone out there is also idiom challenged in their French learning, here is a basic list to build on.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:French_idioms
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