The Duolingo Thread

[geoffw]

Just be careful with Duolingo's Irish course. There's quite a bit wrong with it, especially the audio. There's better free courses online.

Have you shared previously what those better free courses are? I'd love to find something else to try! Also, thanks for answering so many of my (djzeus01) questions at Duolingo!

I've have had very positive experiences with Duolingo, even though I agree with a lot of the criticisms. I started with the Irish course, then moved to the Esperanto course. While the Irish audio is problematic, it's a human being. I was shocked and horrified when I later listened to the French, Portuguese, German, etc. voices. I was a complete zero beginner in Irish, and I had no idea how to get started. I had been unable to find any kind of well-organized and comprehensive beginner-to-intermediate course for Irish, and Duolingo got me up and running (for free). After finishing the tree, and doing a lot of supplemental work on vocabulary, grammar, and extensive reading/listening, etc., I'd say I'm getting close to A2 or so. Where I am now, however, Duolingo no longer can give me too much more in the way of new vocabulary, complete grammar explanations, useful audio to model, etc.

The Esperanto course also has a human voice, and a very good one according to community consensus. Despite being in Beta, it's seemed a good bit cleaner and more error-free than the Irish course. The logical nature of Esperanto may have contributed to that, but it also seems like there's more to it than that. Every single lesson includes lesson notes that explain some aspect of grammar and/or usage. Despite not having finished the relatively short tree yet, I already feel quite comfortable exchanging messages online in Esperanto on any topic, with occasional use of a dictionary. I passed the A-level course at lernu yesterday with only one mistake -- and I'm pretty sure that's because I saw someone else make that mistake in a chat room right before taking the test, and I assumed they knew what they were doing.

I'm anxiously awaiting the release of the Russian and Hebrew courses there -- but I've already put a lot of work into those languages, and I only plan to use Duolingo as an additional tool to attack the problem from a different angle.

[Brun Ugle]

There is also a very active Facebook group for the Esperanto Duolingo course. The creators of the course and some other experienced Esperantists are very active there answering questions and correcting people's attempts at writing. Just thought you might like to know if you're doing the course.

[Stelle]

I finished the Spanish tree back when they still had hearts. I think that Duolingo is fun as a bit of extra language practice when it comes to Spanish. I certainly wouldn't use it as a sole - or even primary - resource, but it's surprisingly fun and addictive. I never let Duolingo take the place of other language study. It was an add-on if I felt like doing more on a particular day.

The first 3/4 of the tree are much better than the last 1/4, in my opinion. Duolingo is kind of a joke when it comes to more complex grammatical structures. If I recall correctly, they lumped together the subjunctive and the imperative and gave me a trophy after three lessons. Ha! But the early lessons that focused on basic vocabulary and sentence structure were useful.

After finishing the Spanish tree, I didn't bother to keep it golden. A few months ago I did a review just for fun, but I really didn't feel that it was a good use of my time.

I'm now using Duolingo for Esperanto. I find the course very clear and well-explained! I'm just dabbling in Esperanto, so Duolingo is currently my main resource. My username is stellere.

[galaxyrocker]

While the Irish audio is problematic, it's a human being.

I must disagree with this. I think the problem is compounded by the fact that it's an actual human being. With TTS systems, you at least expect there to be mistakes and things not said right. This isn't generally held for actual voices, so people assume they're getting accurate content when they're getting a learner who can't speak proper Irish saying everything. Yet they implicitly trust it more.

After finishing the tree, and doing a lot of supplemental work on vocabulary, grammar, and extensive reading/listening, etc., I'd say I'm getting close to A2 or so.

Good on you for doing more. Sadly, I feel most people who use Duolingo don't do that (but still like to claim "A2", or, even "B1". Also, Is ay you should really work on your speaking and writing, as well. Though both are extremely difficult to do because of the lack of native speakers (or highly fluent non-natives).

Despite being in Beta, it's seemed a good bit cleaner and more error-free than the Irish course.

I'm entirely convinced, despite the claims of the Irish contributors,that none of them are as advanced in Irish as they believed they were. There might be one or two who hardly did any work, but there were a lot of learner mistakes that honestly looked like they came from Google Translate. There's still a lot of Béarlachas I see floating about there.

[kimchizzle]

I've really been enjoying Duo Spanish. I started from the beginning even though I had a background in Spanish. I just understand there will be some mistakes with the course and I may have to relearn a few things later, hopefully not many. I'm having fun learning and that is more important to me than a 100% perfect course. Also the course is free, so I have no expectations of perfection like I would for a paid course.

I've also begun the Dutch course and I can't comment too much yet but the voice is very TTS sounding and robotic.

Another reason little imperfections with a course don't bother me too much is because I use other learning tools also like memrise, FSI, and listening and reading and not just Duo

Thanks for the review. I think I won't return to Duo Spanish.

When it comes to free vs paid sources, I expect the free ones to not contain mistakes, no matter how much less I "demand" when it comes to other aspects. Learning mistakes is something I try to avoid as much as possible. It turns a free product into an actually expensive one.

Oh, I think you misunderstand me a little. I have not found any mistakes with the Spanish course yet, almost halfway in and all grammar has been a review so far, so I feel I would have notice a mistake if there had been one yet. But I expect there to be mistakes in the future lessons somewhere, because that is what other people here have said. I can't confirm though myself, but I just go into the course with the expectation there will be mistakes based on what others have said, and I am ok with that cause Duo isn't going to take me to some super high level anyways, and I mainly am using it for new vocabulary and verb conjugation drills.

One thing I can confirm that you most likely would not like is the over-reliance of personal pronouns in the course. But for me, I don't mind about that because I already understand native Spanish doesn't use as many personal pronouns, so I just ignore that. Also the course accepts translation answers if you choose not to use the personal pronouns.

But I do understand I am in a different position from someone who is completely new to a language. Whereas I have knowledge to notice certain mistakes, or things that aren't exactly like native speech and can ignore those things, a new language learner does not have that luxury.

So in some ways, even though, Duo is marketed towards absolute beginners, I think Duo is better for a learner with some knowledge, but not at intermediate levels, Then they can notice mistakes, if any, and ask questions about it.

The thing I like least about Duo is that the area what people can write questions about a translation exercise or sentence, there is no moderation. So what happens often is that the top comments are stupid jokes and off-topic posts and you have to search through the comments to find a native or knowledgeable person who gave a good explanation.

[geoffw]

While the Irish audio is problematic, it's a human being.

I must disagree with this. I think the problem is compounded by the fact that it's an actual human being. With TTS systems, you at least expect there to be mistakes and things not said right. This isn't generally held for actual voices, so people assume they're getting accurate content when they're getting a learner who can't speak proper Irish saying everything. Yet they implicitly trust it more.
Also, Is ay you should really work on your speaking and writing, as well.

Good point--I mainly just meant that I wasn't disturbed by the TTS sounds, not that it was instructional.

I've had LI for years, actually, but it was so mind-numbingly boring that I could never get past the first lesson or two. I'm an Assimil type of guy, I guess. I'll gladly spend endless hours struggling with opaque native texts before submitting to having to do a few minutes of canned grammar drills.

[galaxyrocker]

I've had LI for years, actually, but it was so mind-numbingly boring that I could never get past the first lesson or two. I'm an Assimil type of guy, I guess. I'll gladly spend endless hours struggling with opaque native texts before submitting to having to do a few minutes of canned grammar drills.

I wish there was an Irish Assimil in English (there is an 'On the Road' one in French). I think it could be very useful, especially since they seem willing to focus on actual speech (so no stupid Caighdeán stuff), and seem to be smart enough to get a native speaker to do it as well.

And, yeah. I like the old grammar way, though I now use LI more as a reference than anything else. Same with the old TY. Though, one thing I really like about LI is that it has a text section using things you learned in the previous lessons, so you can see it as used in real situations.

[Cavesa]

Yes, I agree it's better for a learner who can already notice the mistakes. However, I still find it a bad habit to read and replicate sentences with the pronoun overuse. I am more and more inclined to letting go "practice opportunities" that are not up to par with my expectations when it comes to quality. Even opportunities to speak, I don't like to "practice English" with second language speakers at lower level than mine as the mistakes are a bit like a contagion. Until a certain "amount" of exposure, my brain stops resisting. Therefore I'd be careful with Duolingo as well.

I find interesting the notes about Irish Duolingo and the lack of caution when it comes to hearing a "native" speaker. I wish there was an option to choose from more speakers. That would, in general, deal with the issues of regional accents, or understanding a woman better than a man or vice versa.

[galaxyrocker]

I find interesting the notes about Irish Duolingo and the lack of caution when it comes to hearing a "native" speaker. I wish there was an option to choose from more speakers. That would, in general, deal with the issues of regional accents, or understanding a woman better than a man or vice versa.

This is honestly something I wish as well. What's particularly frustrating about the Irish one is that they had a native speaker, born and raised in the Gaeltacht (and thus not a native speaker of Non-Traditional/New Irish) volunteer to work on the course. The speaker had experience recording in Irish and volunteered to do it for the course if need be. And they turned him down!

But, as to the other courses, I do wish they'd have a wider variety of voices. Sadly, Duolingo lives by their A/B tests (though I'm also under the feeling they get the results they want to see out of them, so it's not much of a real test), and these tests show people 'learn' better with a feminine voice.

[getreallanguage]

I am sad to report that recently, probably since the last time the app updated, the android versions of the swedish and turkish courses started including "tap the pairs" and multiple choice "how do you say" exercises. Ay ay ay. I hate those exercises. Does anybody know how to downgrade an app on android...?