Routledge's Colloquial series

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Ogrim
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Re: Routledge's Colloquial series

Postby Ogrim » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:18 am

MamaPata wrote:I'm currently using Colloquial Russian 2 and I really like it. They have a strong cultural theme, which I like, so the chapters are all around a particular theme: the media, elections, cultural life, etc. I would say that it is fairly big on reading, in that each chapter tends two have two or three texts with reading comprehension questions. This is really useful for me as I'm finding reading difficult at the moment.

It really works for me, but I'd be intrigued to get other people's thoughts and to hear about the other languages.


I've been through Colloquial Russian 1 and 2, and I found them both very useful. There is a nice progression and grammar is explained well. My only problem with Colloquial is the audio. There is no audio for most of the texts, instead there is an obnoxious English voice much of the time giving you instructions or asking you questions. I guess the idea is that this voice is a teacher who guides you and helps you to understand the texts and to do exercises, but I find it really annoying.
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Re: Routledge's Colloquial series

Postby AdamDimond » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:22 pm

I have thinking about the Persian book, and several other minor languages, but have only seen material from the French and Spanish courses. I wasn't particularly impressed but if the books vary I may still get it, because I just haven't seen a lot of Persian resources out there.
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Speakeasy
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Re: Routledge's Colloquial series

Postby Speakeasy » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:57 pm

AdamDimond wrote:I have thinking about the Persian book, and several other minor languages, ... I may still get it, because I just haven't seen a lot of Persian resources out there.
I used the "search" function in an unsuccessful attempt to locate a list of Persian/Farsi resources (this could be due to my own ineptness in using the search function). However, a search of the previous forum (HTLAL) does yield a few interesting, although dated, discussion threads on this language. With a view to inviting discussion of your specific interests, you might wish to create a separate discussion thread such as "Persian (Farsi) Resources" and ask members for their suggestions. Good luck with your studies!
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Re: Routledge's Colloquial series

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:17 am

You can find some in the current Team Middle East topic.
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Re: Routledge's Colloquial series

Postby piosza » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:07 am

I used the one for Mongolian. I found it pretty useful. The texts are usually quite interesting and informative (esp. those about the evolution of the Mongolian script and the history of Mongolia). The grammar explanations precise and detailed (quite academic actually, which is something that I personally like). The accompanying recordings are all high-quality. As the handbook provides the script for all the recordings, it was possible for me to create the subtitles for each audio file (including both the original Mongolian text and its English translation) and then process the subtitled audio using a piece of software called WorkAudiobook, which is very helpful for anyone wishing to train each phrase or sentence of an audio file separately. This helped a lot to improve both my listening and pronunciation skills.
In combination with other handbooks Colloquial Mongolian is a very useful tool that should not be overlooked by any serious learner of the contemporary Mongolian language.
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Speakeasy
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Re: Routledge's Colloquial series

Postby Speakeasy » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:54 pm

A few moments ago, I received a promotional Email from Routledge announcing the availability of a "Free Trial" of selected Colloquial courses until February 28, 2017. The announcement includes a price discount of 20% for which a code (included at the bottom of the webpage) must be applied.

Here is the LINK:
http://view.email.taylorandfrancis.com/?qs=d81a0c680f50d6fe05b8c586c892300f5f83cb1a71a9bd5d093907d90f37ee01f5685c15b860dd980c7204418af8696dd418973a8479c09da3c59ec98ba06445482507cd1b5496bb
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Speakeasy
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Re: Routledge's Colloquial series

Postby Speakeasy » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:22 am

Part 1 of 2
Some additional information.

Routledge (History) – Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routledge

Routledge Colloquial Series – Free Audio Recordings
I would assume that most members are aware that the audio recordings of the Routledge Colloquial series books are freely available to the public via the publisher’s website. If not, here is the link:
https://www.routledgetextbooks.com/textbooks/colloquial/default.php#languages

Routledge Colloquial Series – Selection of Reviews & Discussions
Some members might wish to access a few previous reviews and discussions of the Routledge Colloquial Series.

Colloquial Series Reviews – Professor Arguelles - YouTube


The Colloquial series? – HTLAL – June, 2005
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=736&PN=71

Colloquial vs Teach Yourself – HTLAL – July, 2011 (contains links to several other discussion threads)
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28828&PN=1
Last edited by Speakeasy on Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Routledge's Colloquial series

Postby Speakeasy » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:25 am

Part 2 of 2
Trubner’s Colloquial Manuals

Recently, while in the process of putting together an order for a couple of vintage textbooks, I took the opportunity to add a copy of “Colloquial German”, by P.F. Doring, to my order, a vintage book which I understood to be a previous generation of the current Routledge Colloquial German self-instruction course. I received the book today and was surprised that, in addition to the indication that Routledge & Paul Kegan were the publishers, the back of the dust jacket referred to the series as “Trubner’s Colloquial Manuals” (see below).
Trubner's Colloquial 1.JPG


Nicholas Trübner
A quick search of the internet yielded a brief history of the originator and of one of his most well-known series …

Nicholas Trübner -- Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Tr%C3%BCbner

Trübner's Oriental Series (Trübner & Co.; Kegan Paul, Trench, Trübner & Co.) - Book Series List
https://www.publishinghistory.com/trubners-oriental-series.html
Trubner's Oriental Series.JPG


Trubner’s Colloquials
From the information on the dust jacket of my copy of “Colloquial German” augmented by my search of the major online booksellers’ websites, it would seem that the most recent editions of these books were published/revised through the period from the late 1940’s through the 1950’s after which they reprinted without further revisions. Exactly "which generation” this series of books represents is open to speculation. Languages covered in the series included at least the following: Arabic (Levantine), Chinese (Northern), Czech, Dutch, French, German, Greek, Hindustani, Hungarian, Italian, Japanese, Malay, Persian, Rumanian, Russian, Spanish, Turkish.

Approach to Teaching
As is evidenced by the “Table of Contents” of my copy of Colloquial German, by P.F. Doring, this series seems to have placed considerable emphasis on the acquisition of the structure of the target language, a matter which is not surprising given the period when these courses were published. I have not come across any evidence of audio recordings for this series. In the Preface, the student is advised: “Take every opportunity for talking to natives, listen to the German lessons on the B.B.C., and study German gramophone records (Linguaphone: German Intonation and Verse-Speaking series)."
Trubner's Colloquial 2.JPG


Part One of the course book includes the lessons which are comprised of a series of basic sentences accompanied by translations, example texts and narratives without translations, very clear statements of the points of grammar under discussion, along with a very abbreviated (incomplete) glossary which the authors suggested should be augmented with a good bilingual dictionary.
Trubner's Colloquial 3.JPG


Part Two of the course book contains a selection of Bilingual Reading Matter drawn from the target language’s literature, and three sections of untranslated Prose, Poetry, and Folk Songs.
Trubner's Colloquial 4.JPG


Assessment
As is understandable, there are but a handful of reviews of these courses on Amazon; nevertheless, they are, for the most part, quite positive. My quick survey of “Colloquial German”, by P.F. Doring, left me rather surprised by the sheer mass of information contained in the 220-odd pages of this small volume.

The apparent absence of audio recordings, the heavy emphasis on grammar, the limited use of translations in the lessons, and the incompleteness of the lesson glossaries almost suggest the need of an instructor. Nevertheless, a self-motivated, determined, independent learner could, indeed, complete one of these courses and, having done so, would have acquired a lower-intermediate level of reading skill.

Developing good aural/oral skills would require contact with the spoken language which could have been achieved by combining a Colloquial course with the corresponding Assimil, Cortina, or Linguaphone course of the period, creating a very strong home-study programme which, despite the changes in the target languages, would still be viable today.

I am quite impressed by my copy of the previous generation of Colloquial German. Nevertheless, in today’s context, these courses would be of greatest interest to collectors and perhaps to those few students who would be interested in the aforementioned combination.

EDITED:
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David1917
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Re: Routledge's Colloquial series

Postby David1917 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:22 pm

I love the Trubner's Colloquial books. I own the Hungarian, Rumanian, and Turkish versions. I'll be ordering the French & German ones once I complete the TYS of the same era, and have also perused the Russian one at my university's library.

Layout
There are some discrepancies in the format by language. I think the "easier" languages, namely the Romance family and German, follow the Part I - Grammar and Part II - Reader layout. However, in reviewing the Hungarian, Turkish and Russian books - they instead include short readings in each chapter. I'm not sure if the intention is to provide more "reassurance" systematically, or if they felt the need to construct didactic passages rather than excerpts from true literature, as seems to be the case in the first group.

Orthography
There's a Google Books preview of Persian, and it appears to be romanized. I remember noting the same thing when I saw the Chinese book in a used bookstore, which caused me to pass up the purchase. I can only assume that Arabic and Hindustani are treated the same way, which would make the use of these books almost completely useless IMHO. The real shame for me is that the author of the Persian course LP Elwell-Sutton wrote a great Persian grammar around the same time. I don't think they are meant to be corollaries, but I think it would be enjoyable to work through 2 manuals like that from the same author.

Current Colloquial Series
I agree that this is a "mileage may vary" issue, but generally the 1st (or 2nd if compared to Trubner's era) editions will be better than the newer ones. Russian for example has the following differences between the 2nd & 3rd editions, both by the same authors:

  • The dialogues surveyed so far are more or less the same, though the newer edition includes a paragraph in English summarizing what you are about to read/hear.
  • The reading comprehension questions in the older edition are in Russian, the newer in English
  • In one Unit, the newer edition has one additional cultural dialog
  • The newer edition puts the relevant exercises after each grammar point, whereas the older one lays out all the grammar and then follows with all the exercises
  • One exercise on prepositions in the old edition also asks the learner to put the corresponding noun into the proper case, the newer version has the nouns already marked for case
  • The translation exercises in the older version are longer

As you can see, the newer one is more "friendly" but also less thorough. I have not completed my analysis of all the units, just done the 1st and a couple in the middle. I have not sampled the audio for either version, but assume it is riddled with inane English instructions like "You can pause the recording to think about your answer." Gee, thanks.

Colloquial Persian
I have not looked at the 2nd edition by Leila Moshiri, but the 3rd edition by Abdi Rafiee is endorsed by Prof Arguelles, and I've begun looking at it myself. The audio needs severe editing to eliminate the English inanities alluded to above, but the book is great in that it is truly "colloquial" in its use of Persian - e.g. dropping certain verb forms etc. The caveat I would make here is that a user must supplement with a course that uses the more "official" forms, since the written language typically reflects this; unless one's goal is truly and solely verbal communication.
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Re: Routledge's Colloquial series

Postby David1917 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:55 pm

David1917 wrote:Colloquial Persian
I have not looked at the 2nd edition by Leila Moshiri, but the 3rd edition by Abdi Rafiee is endorsed by Prof Arguelles, and I've begun looking at it myself. The audio needs severe editing to eliminate the English inanities alluded to above, but the book is great in that it is truly "colloquial" in its use of Persian - e.g. dropping certain verb forms etc. The caveat I would make here is that a user must supplement with a course that uses the more "official" forms, since the written language typically reflects this; unless one's goal is truly and solely verbal communication.


Crossposting with this thread on Persian resources, I just wanted to say that I have previewed this 2nd edition by Moshiri to find that it is unfortunately entirely romanized like the 1st edition by Elwell-Sutton. A rare case wherein the newest Colloquial offering is the most preferred option.

Additionally, the Arabic course of the Trubner's generation is indeed entirely romanized as well. There is no real reader to speak of either, neither in the lessons nor in a separate section. It also appears to be a survey of Egyptian, Iraqi and Syrian dialects, rather than MSA (truly "Colloquial" again!) with a note in the appendix about Algerian/Moroccan. Lots of exercises, but again probably useless due to the absence of the native script. De Lacy O'Leary is the author.
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