Assimil phasing out physical books?

[BrennoGold]

I can't find "Using German" anywhere.

I don't think it ever existed. I'm also pretty sure it was here where I read this information, or in the language learning subreddit.

[themethod]

As someone else pointed out, Russian from English hasn't been sold for years, and used copies are over $100. I'm now noticing that Brazilian Portuguese is in the same boat.

It seems like Assimil is only going to offer books for the absolute biggest languages (French, Spanish, German) in English and even otherwise major languages are being relegated to e-courses and (sometimes) phrase books.

The "good news" is that they still offer Brazilian Portuguese in French, German, Italian, and Spanish, with Russian in all of these other than Spanish. Since most "polyglots" probably already know one of these languages, you can continue to find books at a more reasonable price.

But it's quite disappointing to see one of the better textbooks out there basically remove itself from the market completely, and this driving up the price for used copies. And this doesn't appear to be a temporary thing.

Another drawback for Americans is that used copies with other base languages on sites like eBay often come with huge international shipping costs.

I like Assimil just fine, including the excellent physical quality of their books that others have commented on, and I'll likely continue to buy used copies of languages I'm even remotely interested in as I find good deals, but I think the (lack of) availability and cost makes them harder to justify as a "go-to" course at this point.

You could get a whole range of great materials for Russian for less (and you'll need them).

[Ug_Caveman]

I can't find "Using German" anywhere.

I don't think it ever existed. I'm also pretty sure it was here where I read this information, or in the language learning subreddit.

I believe it was something they intended to make, then it never came to fruition.

[Khayyam]

Well, this sucks. I was starting to form a vision of a bookshelf filled with Assimil books that I'd worked through, each one marking my launch into a new language. I hate reading from a screen in general, and I just can't do it when it comes to learning languages.

I might end up buying used physical copies even if the prices go way up. I'll only begin a new language once I've essentially mastered the receptive side of the last one, which means I'd be going quite a long time between purchases. $200 every two years (I flatter myself) doesn't seem like that much, especially considering that Assimil is likely the only made-for-learners material I'd ever buy. And considering how dirt-cheap this pursuit is in general.

Ex-girlfriend's voice in my head: "Boy, your justifications are makin' my eyeball twitch."

[PeterMollenburg]

Another drawback for Americans is that used copies with other base languages on sites like eBay often come with huge international shipping costs.

I feel this is a little ethocentric. Yes it's a valid drawback for Americans in such situations, but given where most books are published, much of the world is subject to this problem most of the time.

[themethod]

Another drawback for Americans is that used copies with other base languages on sites like eBay often come with huge international shipping costs.

I feel this is a little ethocentric. Yes it's a valid drawback for Americans in such situations, but given where most books are published, much of the world is subject to this problem most of the time.

I have no clue what you're talking about.

I'm talking about English speakers, many of which live in America, getting access to Assimil books since they are no longer publishing the majority of languages in English. That is literally what this thread is about, since Assimil does not seem to be removing support for other languages. The course discussed in the OP, Dutch, is still available on Assimil's site in French, German, and Italian.

Previously, Americans could get many courses in English for cheaper. For instance, the current version of Assimil French is $27 for the book on Amazon with free shipping and Spanish with audio is $58, since Assimil still sells those courses.

But new copies of Portugues de Brasil (Spanish base) would cost at least $50, just for the book, since American sellers don't keep stock of courses for Spanish speakers, and used copies of Brazilian Portuguese in English are going for over $100.

Do you not think it's worth noting a 100% to 300%+ increase in price for a popular course?

Americans have also typically been able to find used copies of previous Assimil generations in English for $25-$35 or less. I think I paid $20 for Spanish with Ease and even got a copy of Arabic with Ease Vol. 1 for only $6 recently. The "Without Toil" books can usually be had for $10 to $20.

However, these types of deals are much less common in other languages for Americans, since that $10 or $20 used copy in Canada, the UK, or Spain often requires a $30 shipping fee.

Note: This is especially notable since many here consider the previous generations to be more thorough.

By the way, while Assimil themselves have always charged a pretty penny for international shipping, that cost could be diminished by: 1. Buying from third-party sellers, as alluded to above; or 2. Buying multiple courses at a time.

But of course, it's literally impossible to buy multiple courses at a time in English because Assimil no longer sells them.

Does that mean no one will or should ever use Assimil again? No, maybe it is worth the price for you, especially for an individual course. But for people here, who may own/buy 5, 10, or 20 Assimil courses or buy courses for languages they might learn one day, that extra $25, $50, $100+ per course adds up and it is worth considering.**

And we haven't even gotten into the costs associated with legitimately acquiring the associated audio files.

It's also worth noting that other used courses like Berlitz Self-Teacher, Cortina Conversational in 20 Lessons, Living Language, etc. can usually be had for $5 a pop in very good condition.

For instance, I can get all three of those courses in Brazilian Portuguese, plus a Pimsleur subscription, for $50. Or I can buy... just the Spanish to Brazilian Assimil book for like $60.

Lastly, you're not even correct on your other points.

1. The majority of non-English books are not published in the United States, hence the reason we have to get them shipped here. Obviously the largest and richest English-speaking country produces the majority of English books, I'm not sure why you consider that such an affront to the international community.

By the way, Assimil is French, and Routledge (Colloquial, etc.), Teach Yourself, Berlitz, etc. are all UK publishers.

2. Many bookstores in other countries do stock English books for roughly the same price as they cost in the US. I literally bought my first Russian courses at a Japanese bookstore chain in Thailand. This is not the case in the reverse, where even Spanish books are (somewhat) rare here.

3. It is not a requirement to charge $30 for international shipping on books. There are economy shipping options that allow "media mail" to be shipped for very cheap or even free, if you're willing to wait.

Even Amazon US doesn't charge $30 for shipping books, as I've ordered from them while living in Asia. Another US-based used bookstore I like, Better World Books, ships for free internationally. Unfortunately, many international sellers seem less willing or able to provide economy shipping options, though some from the UK, Canada, and Australia on eBay do.

In short, it's a simple fact that it's easier to get English books (and other media) outside the US than it is to get French, German, or even Spanish books inside the US.

It is just silly to accuse me of "ethnocentricism" for talking about book prices for Americans in a discussion about English-book availability on an English-speaking forum. I did not claim anyone was a bad person for charging for shipping, I did not claim we were oppressed by dirty foreigners and their shipping fees, it's simply an economic reality that must be considered when deciding on a course.

If you are not American and this doesn't apply to you, feel free to ignore it. Or even to create a separate post or thread about whatever shipping cost issues are weighing on your mind.

**P.S. The above prices are simply estimates based on current prices, and it doesn't mean that deals aren't available (as I hinted at in my previous post). For instance, I currently see a copy of Dutch with Ease on eBay in very good condition for $29 with free shipping. You can also find French, Spanish, and German copies in various language for better prices on occassion. Though getting the audio can then be another story.

However, anyone who follows the used book market knows that once sellers' algorithm tells them a book is rare, many of them become dead set on charging top dollar for them -- and you have to spend more time waiting (and hoping) for a deal to fall through the cracks. This is especially true for languages like Russian and Brazilian Portuguese, since they're now rare while still being popular enough languages to be in demand. And this will likely not change as long as these books aren't being published.

[PeterMollenburg]

Another drawback for Americans is that used copies with other base languages on sites like eBay often come with huge international shipping costs.

I feel this is a little ethocentric. Yes it's a valid drawback for Americans in such situations, but given where most books are published, much of the world is subject to this problem most of the time.

I have no clue what you're talking about.

I'm talking about English speakers, many of which live in America, getting access to Assimil books since they are no longer publishing the majority of languages in English. That is literally what this thread is about, since Assimil does not seem to be removing support for other languages. The course discussed in the OP, Dutch, is still available on Assimil's site in French, German, and Italian.

Previously, Americans could get many courses in English for cheaper. For instance, the current version of Assimil French is $27 for the book on Amazon with free shipping and Spanish with audio is $58, since Assimil still sells those courses.

But new copies of Portugues de Brasil (Spanish base) would cost at least $50, just for the book, since American sellers don't keep stock of courses for Spanish speakers, and used copies of Brazilian Portuguese in English are going for over $100.

Do you not think it's worth noting a 100% to 300%+ increase in price for a popular course?

Americans have also typically been able to find used copies of previous Assimil generations in English for $25-$35 or less. I think I paid $20 for Spanish with Ease and even got a copy of Arabic with Ease Vol. 1 for only $6 recently. The "Without Toil" books can usually be had for $10 to $20.

However, these types of deals are much less common in other languages for Americans, since that $10 or $20 used copy in Canada, the UK, or Spain often requires a $30 shipping fee.

Note: This is especially notable since many here consider the previous generations to be more thorough.

By the way, while Assimil themselves have always charged a pretty penny for international shipping, that cost could be diminished by: 1. Buying from third-party sellers, as alluded to above; or 2. Buying multiple courses at a time.

But of course, it's literally impossible to buy multiple courses at a time in English because Assimil no longer sells them.

Does that mean no one will or should ever use Assimil again? No, maybe it is worth the price for you, especially for an individual course. But for people here, who may own/buy 5, 10, or 20 Assimil courses or buy courses for languages they might learn one day, that extra $25, $50, $100+ per course adds up and it is worth considering.**

And we haven't even gotten into the costs associated with legitimately acquiring the associated audio files.

It's also worth noting that other used courses like Berlitz Self-Teacher, Cortina Conversational in 20 Lessons, Living Language, etc. can usually be had for $5 a pop in very good condition.

For instance, I can get all three of those courses in Brazilian Portuguese, plus a Pimsleur subscription, for $50. Or I can buy... just the Spanish to Brazilian Assimil book for like $60.

Lastly, you're not even correct on your other points.

1. The majority of non-English books are not published in the United States, hence the reason we have to get them shipped here. Obviously the largest and richest English-speaking country produces the majority of English books, I'm not sure why you consider that such an affront to the international community.

By the way, Assimil is French, and Routledge (Colloquial, etc.), Teach Yourself, Berlitz, etc. are all UK publishers.

2. Many bookstores in other countries do stock English books for roughly the same price as they cost in the US. I literally bought my first Russian courses at a Japanese bookstore chain in Thailand. This is not the case in the reverse, where even Spanish books are (somewhat) rare here.

3. It is not a requirement to charge $30 for international shipping on books. There are economy shipping options that allow "media mail" to be shipped for very cheap or even free, if you're willing to wait.

Even Amazon US doesn't charge $30 for shipping books, as I've ordered from them while living in Asia. Another US-based used bookstore I like, Better World Books, ships for free internationally. Unfortunately, many international sellers seem less willing or able to provide economy shipping options, though some from the UK, Canada, and Australia on eBay do.

In short, it's a simple fact that it's easier to get English books (and other media) outside the US than it is to get French, German, or even Spanish books inside the US.

It is just silly to accuse me of "ethnocentricism" for talking about book prices for Americans in a discussion about English-book availability on an English-speaking forum. I did not claim anyone was a bad person for charging for shipping, I did not claim we were oppressed by dirty foreigners and their shipping fees, it's simply an economic reality that must be considered when deciding on a course.

If you are not American and this doesn't apply to you, feel free to ignore it. Or even to create a separate post or thread about whatever shipping cost issues are weighing on your mind.

**P.S. The above prices are simply estimates based on current prices, and it doesn't mean that deals aren't available (as I hinted at in my previous post). For instance, I currently see a copy of Dutch with Ease on eBay in very good condition for $29 with free shipping. You can also find French, Spanish, and German copies in various language for better prices on occassion. Though getting the audio can then be another story.

However, anyone who follows the used book market knows that once sellers' algorithm tells them a book is rare, many of them become dead set on charging top dollar for them -- and you have to spend more time waiting (and hoping) for a deal to fall through the cracks. This is especially true for languages like Russian and Brazilian Portuguese, since they're now rare while still being popular enough languages to be in demand. And this will likely not change as long as these books aren't being published.

My point was that most of the world deals with elevated postage since much of the publishing occurs in parts of the the world where many customers (not all, nor necessarily the majority of buyers) don't live. Btw l'm in Australia.

To extrapolate and to clarify, I was not suggesting that the majority of publishing in whichever language(s) occurs in the US only. In my mind (admittedly an assumption), most publishing would likely occur in the US, UK and Europe, which still leaves a lot of countries in the world where international postage would be necessary upon purchase.

I was getting on my high-horse and trotting around because I felt your comment about higher postage costs lacked consideration for many of us (there is a mountain of English language sales outside the US and UK including in places many people wouldn't think to consider due to the rising popularity of and consideration as English as the global language) in other parts of the world. We deal with higher postage costs (than in the US) frequently. Still maybe we do pay similar rates for non-English publications. Ultimately It doesn't really matter to me because I now realise the folly of my whinging post. Poor me, very hard done by (sarcasm).

So, to be humble, my reaction to your comments about higher postage were about you in your specific location relative to your personal experience and not relative to myself. I would've been wiser had I held my tongue (or fingers off the keyboard), but you know, sometimes I ignore good sense. Moreover, I was nitpicking because my ego was saying something along the lines of "Hey, what about the rest of us outside the US? We pay crappy higher rates more often than you". And yes, I neglected to consider which language(s) I was arguing about. My apologies. It was off topic and unnecessary, as you correctly indicated. There are bigger (and better) things to argue over and really such costs ought to be grouped with the cost of living, income and other things relative to one's circumstances to really understand a person's overall economic situation. Thus, I lacked insight too.

I am aware Assimil is a French publisher. I have many of their publications in several base languages, mainly English and French. I favour their physical books despite using electronic versions at times.

Btw, I don't disagree with your other comments.
I actually feel, were we discussing this matter face to face in person, I would've interjected briefly with that left-of-field comment, clarification would've ensued between us and we would've continued on with the general topic of the discussion with little more consideration (and rightly so) regarding the comment. I should've reflected more on the platform and how such a comment might be received.


So, I do agree with the overall sentiment that it's a real shame Assimil's business model is progressively a more digital one with physical books (and their availabilty) diminishing, indeed as you correctly pointed out, leading to significant price rises that correlate roughly (sometimes the prices are absurd!) to how rare the book in question might be down the track.

[themethod]

So, to be humble, my reaction to your comments about higher postage were about you in your specific location relative to your personal experience and not relative to myself. I would've been wiser had I held my tongue (or fingers off the keyboard), but you know, sometimes I ignore good sense. Moreover, I was nitpicking because my ego was saying something along the lines of "Hey, what about the rest of us outside the US? We pay crappy higher rates more often than you". And yes, I neglected to consider which language(s) I was arguing about. My apologies. It was off topic and unnecessary, as you correctly indicated. There are bigger (and better) things to argue over and really such costs ought to be grouped with the cost of living, income and other things relative to one's circumstances to really understand a person's overall economic situation. Thus, I lacked insight too.

No worries. My only point about the shipping costs is that they essentially double (or more) the price that we'd be paying for them normally.

But obviously that's relative, which is why I included it as an aside. Some people may not be as affected, whether they don't have to pay as much shipping or they were already paying it, and some people may just not care about the price.

By the way, I'll admit that I missed your location in your profile and assumed from your name that you were from a German-speaking country in Europe I'm definitely sympathetic to any shipping woes you Aussies deal with.

[Makaveli1989]

For me personally I find using the app much easier than the books. But maybe that's just because I use Assimil whilst commuting

The first thing to say is that the Assimil apps are quite bad (But useable) and don't seem to have improved since they were first made available in 2018ish I think. Secondly, I've always subscribed to the business view that you shouldn't make it hard for your customers to give you money,and boy do Assimil sometimes make it difficult for me to give them some of my money.

Since the 2020 Assimil French version came out, you can still download the previous app version that comes with the first 7 lessons. But if you try to purchase the full course it doesn't let you. I've emailed Assimil about this asking to purchase and they didn't reply.

This is just bad business. The course and app already exist. Keeping the previous version available to download but not purchase is just silly. It requires no ongoing maintenance so it's just free money they are turning down. Crazy !

So although I do use the app more I hope that Assimil continue to publish books because otherwise it will be impossible to get your hands on one of their courses if they so happen to decide to discontinue one or remove it for whatever reason.

[figgles]

I read the (French!) book "My tailor is still rich", which talks a lot about Assimil's history as a company. They are not a big company, and the author cites sales numbers directly provided by Assimil. For me, this give me reason to buy directly from them, but I think they also help provide some much needed context to why books disappear. I do not believe they are actively "phasing out" books as a method on the whole, but they are certainly responding to market pressures.

--

For example, from 2007 - 2019, Le catalan sans peine sold 4,560 books (only) and 2750 super packs. That averages to 610 copies per year during that 12 year period. And sure enough, Le catalan sans peine is no longer in print. Le breton sans peine sold around 1300 copies during 3 years. Still available though. (p190)

Even languages you think would be less "regional" have comparably few sales. For example, the author cites Le portugais sans peine in 2012 as selling around 1,272 copies, peaking in 2014 at 1,277 copies. (p162) -- there are over 10M people in Portugual alone!

Based on this, my thought is that they are producing fewer high-risk/high-reward sans peine courses because they really just don't sell as much. I think that explains the new "Objectif" series, which is much shorter, but likely easier to produce and less daunting for dabblers.
Audio seems to follow a similar cost-reduction model - distributing CDs & USB drives is much more expensive compared to offering a book + download code. I, for one, was happy to be able to 1) get Assimil courses more cheaply and 2) buy copies of the audio for the books that I had.

So to the original post: yes, I think they are not reprinting books that don't sell well. In the case of Italian (which is among their top 4 languages by sales), they might be (complete speculation!) preparing a new English translation of the new French base. In 2021, they released a new Italian book -- it is not yet available in English, Spanish, Portuguese, or German -- ONLY French. All of the other language bases have an Italian print book available except for English. I wonder then if they have delisted the English->Italian book because they intend on printing a new version in English. You can always send them a message to ask -- like I said, they are not a big company and a real human has always responded to me.