When do you add another language?

[basica]

So, I am currently learning Serbian but I am REALLY tempted to start me some German to do a bit on the side - maybe use assimil or something like this. At what point do you think it's safe to start without messing yourself up? I would say that I am in the A2 range (low-mid) and it's the language I am most interested in currently to get into the B levels. I was thinking of waiting till I am in the B2 range before trying to add another language, but I'm not sure if I can wait

So what do you guys think? I am thinking if I do do it, it will be very slow and relaxed, but we'll see..

[Rob Tickner]

From what I've read in the past on HTLAL, the general consensus seems to be B1/B2. For what it's worth, once my German hit B1, I left it alone for 6 months and studied French for a few months (probably to A2), and Swedish for a few weeks (probably to A1). When I came back to German, it was all still there, probably took me a night or two to get back up to speed. French is still there as well, probably at around an A1 level. I can remember one phrase in Swedish.

[Ogrim]

My personal experience is that in the case of languages of the same language family, let's say Spanish and italian or German and Dutch, it is better to have a solid base in one (at least B1) before starting on the other. If languages are very different I think the risk of interference is much less, and starting on a new language should not have a negative impact on the one you are already learning. Of course, one important factor is time. If you "steal" time from your first TL to spend time on a second one, your progress in the first one will obviously slow down.

A couple of years ago I started learning Greek while I was still at a fairly low level in Russian (A1/A2-ish). I went on for maybe 6-7 months doing both. I did not experience any interference, but the reason I gave up Greek was simply that my time was limited and I really wanted to progress in Russian. I've also been tempted to pick up Serbian/Croatian, but apart from the time issue I am also more hesitant at this stage as I need to consolidate and advance my Russian knowledge before embarking upon another Slavic language.

[Cavesa]

The "concensus" is heavily influenced by the fact most htlalers are native English speakers, in my opinion. People in the rest of the world are used to learning two languages at once as a standard (sometimes in school-the european countries, sometimes by exposure to non native languages-for example india). Despite some opinions, I don't think the system of two foreign languages at schools damages the results, there are many much more important factors. People who learn one language well at school, usually learn them both.

I'd say a more universal answer could be:
1.when you need it/want it.
2.when you have the necessary amount of free time

I remember Serpent writing a good wikia article on this.

From my experience, B1 is a totally ok level to add another language at, even when it is related. Even lower could still be possible, if you are not gonna let discouraged by doing twice the amount of beginner stuff at once. Serbian and German shouldn't interfere that much, I'd say the main risk lies in the spread of your free time and consequent slower pace of learning, compared to learning one language at a time.

And there are good examples like Expugnator, who once basically took four languages at once and got them all to good level over time, if I am not mistaken.

[garyb]

For me it's a question of time above all. I have limited time to study languages so adding a new one means taking away a significant amount of time for the existing one(s). These days I prefer to focus on one "primary" language at a time, while maintaining the others or just working on passive skills in them, because progress was simply too slow for my liking when trying to divide my efforts between two or three.

Relatively speaking, reaching B1/B2 is the easy part; the time and effort to get from B to C levels is much greater than that to get from zero to B, which is something I wasn't aware of at first and needs to be considered if you're thinking about adding in a beginner language while going from intermediate to advanced in another. I'm not saying don't do it; just saying it's a bigger commitment than it might appear.

Different things work for different people though.

[Serpent]

Here is the wikia article. Cavesa made some great contributions too
There's also an article specifically for those who've already decided to study two languages at the same time.

I add a language when I can't live without it, or without encountering it.

[Cavesa]

I totally agree with Garyb that the B to C path is long and not that much easier in some ways than to one from 0 to B. However, that is exactly why I find it good to add another language, if you want to learn another one, because you won't speed up the advanced process by sole focus that much anyways (I am more and more convinced that it is not a simple equation more time per day=fewer days)and getting more noticeable progress in a second foreign language can be a nice piece of encouragement you are likely to be lacking during the advanced journey. But I can see this might feel different to everyone.

[emk]

I personally like to get to the point where I can maintain a language by watching TV. (Obviously this doesn't apply to Middle Egyptian!) The reason: I spend large sections of my life far too busy, but it's easy to watch TV even when my brain is fried. This was the best move I made when I was in full immersion preparing for my B2 exam: I pushed hard to make sure I could watch Buffy before I went back to my regular life, and that made it a lot easier to do a Super Challenge afterwards.

If I restart Spanish seriously, my goal will be heavily focused on finishing Avatar and Korra in Spanish, and boosting my comprehension to a level where I can enjoy another easy TV series after that. I don't know what I'd need to do to get there—I was much of the way to B2 across the board before I could really watch TV in French, but I'd love to find a way to start somewhat earlier in future languages. (Hence all the subs2srs stuff, to focus on at least one TV series from before A1.) At the very least, it would be an interesting experiment.

[tastyonions]

Add another vote for "it's a question of time." I like to get my "latest" language to a level where I am comfortable maintaining it just by listening and reading, rather than feeling a pressing need to improve it because it's in such a poor state.

That was my mistake with Spanish and Italian. I overestimated my Spanish level and I should have concentrated on it for longer to bring it to a more comfortable level. But now I am invested in both languages, so I don't want to give either one up and have to split "study" (as opposed to maintenance) time between them.

Anyway, one thing is the situation of students or people who need to use multiple languages every day for work or life, another is that of those of us living in a monolingual environment doing a full-time job that has nothing to do with languages.

[iguanamon]

Everyone has raised good points. Personally, I can't study multiple languages simultaneously. I've tried. I only have limited time and using my approach means something has to yield. Perhaps if I were more of a just an Assimil/Anki learner (90%), I could do that. Before simultaneous/multiple learners get their feathers ruffled, I'm just talking about myself here and my own experience. In my five years on old HTLAL, I have seen many a promising learner, making wonderful progress, get derailed by adding a next language too early. What generally happens is that once the new language is picked up, the old one gets pushed aside gradually because of the way learning a language works in the beginning stages. It seems to command a learner's attention. Then there's the thrill of the meteoric rise in progress compared to the slog of consolidation and progress from B1 to C1.

Try to remember that experienced, successful learners are a different animal. We have an advantage in having learned a second language to a high level. We know how languages work and what works for us in learning them. We can learn quicker and more efficiently. These are advantages that you don't have, yet, despite your brilliant progress in Serbian. I've been following you. If you persist to B1, with B2 being better (imho), you will then have a given yourself a really cool gift in language-learning, an advantage that others just starting out don't have- you will know how to learn.

Emk has a really good point about being able to comfortably watch TV in L2 before moving on. Serpent did write an excellent wiki article about simultaneous multiple language learning. Expugnator, well, Expug is amazing! Though I believe he had learned English to a high level first. Cavesa, too, most likely has a good point about native English-speakers and lack of exposure to multiple languages. Many people do study multiple languages simultaneously at school, too. I believe the school situation is less analogous to self-learning adults because the school regime enforces discipline. A student will be in class for those languages- no option not to, barring illness. A student will complete homework assignments, readings and class participation. Self-learners always have the option not to do so and many do tend to take that option, despite their best intentions.

In my time on the old forum I saw this happen many times. The results are generally predictable, in my observation. The learner usually ends up quitting, or with a low level in both languages. Of course, though I am assuming that the learner wants a high level in both languages, that may not be the case for everyone. These are just some observations I've made over the years.

Who knows, perhaps you are ready to move on, basica? Perhaps you will set the forum on fire with your rapid progress in German and your continued progress in Serbian at the same time. You'll never know until you try and you're going to do what you want to do anyway. Perhaps you may want to keep my advice in the back of your mind and review things two or three months after starting German. I wish you good luck- Mazal Bueno!