The Memory Thread

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
User avatar
Carmody
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1747
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:00 am
Location: NYC, NY
Languages: English (N)
French (B1)
Language Log: http://tinyurl.com/zot7wrs
x 3395

The Memory Thread

Postby Carmody » Wed May 03, 2017 3:44 pm

Each person has to develop their own tools and strategies for memorizing vocabulary.

Although I have tried Anki and don’t believe it is for me, I do work with lists that I compile on different Excel spread sheets that are helpful. I review them regularly while walking, in the doctor’s waiting room, or at other times. I space my repetition over reasonable amounts of time (SRS?) and try my best to remember what I can. Also my reading of books is of course very helpful for retention.

But here is the question: how do you handle definitions of words that just don’t stick in your memory? I mean I repeatedly put them in the brain but when I go there to take them out they don’t seem to be where I put them.

Words I am currently working on that challenge me for recall of their specific meanings are the following:
partir
sortir
laisser
s'en aller
s'éloigner
aller
lâcher
quitter
or…
porter
apporter
rapporter
apporter
emporter
remporter
or
amener
emmener
mener à

Do you folks have tips or tricks that help you with definitions? I also sense that building a Memory Palace or sheer bludgeoning with time (which I have tried) is not going to help me here.

Thanks.
Last edited by Carmody on Wed May 03, 2017 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1 x

User avatar
blaurebell
Blue Belt
Posts: 840
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:24 pm
Location: Spain
Languages: German (N), English (C2), Spanish (B2-C1), French (B2+ passive), Italian (A2), Russian (Beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3235
x 2240

Re: The Memory Thread

Postby blaurebell » Wed May 03, 2017 5:10 pm

For me all it needs is the context of a good book. All the words you list are very common, so will be repeated *a lot* in any book. Pick an easy book - young adult translations from English are perfect - and start reading with a dictionary. After you looked up s'éloigner 30 times you'll probably remember it, especially if it appears as the crucial verb in the context of one or two sentences of the book that hold the story together. I don't use any other form of memorisation because I get plenty of repetition through reading. You also don't have to remember all words you read. Any word that might only appear once or twice in the whole book probably is not important enough to remember precisely. Maybe after 20 books it will stick and if not, it's not so bad either. With Anki I always had the problem that I was never sure whether I would even need the word again. Even frequency lists make no sense, because often they are compiled from media I don't consume - newspapers for example. With intensive reading each word is automatically relevant and necessary for the story you're reading. For me that's a good motivator to actually remember the words.
9 x
: 20 / 100 Дэвид Эддингс - В поисках камня
: 14325 / 35000 LWT Known

: 17 / 55 FSI Spanish Basic
: 100 / 116 GdUdE B
: 8 / 72 Duolingo reverse Spanish -> German

User avatar
Carmody
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1747
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:00 am
Location: NYC, NY
Languages: English (N)
French (B1)
Language Log: http://tinyurl.com/zot7wrs
x 3395

Re: The Memory Thread

Postby Carmody » Wed May 03, 2017 5:20 pm

blaurebell

Thanks so much. Your advice is so down to earth and practical; I will definitely apply it.

I love reading in French and look forward to doing lots so your advice is especially helpful.

It seems as if there is hope for me yet. :D

Thanks.
1 x

Ingaræð
Orange Belt
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:34 pm
Languages: English (N), German (heritage)
Learning: Russian, French, German, Mandarin, Arabic, Spanish.
Mostly forgotten: Italian, Welsh.
x 377

Re: The Memory Thread

Postby Ingaræð » Wed May 03, 2017 5:48 pm

Context is best for me - being able to get a sense of the meaning from whatever's going on. If I can link it to a visual, even better. If a word has many definitions, I no longer try to learn all of them at once. For example, I'm currently using LWT, and I just put in the most common definition, plus the definition according to the context in which I've just encountered the word. I may add other definitions as I come across them. Finding a cognate definition, or linking it to a known word in the same family, will give my brain something to initially latch on to. Typing in the definition for each conjugation I encounter really cements things!

In uni, I studied for vocabulary tests using word lists. I got 95-100% on every one, but the week after I'd have forgotten most of the words, which I put down to a lack of context. I doubt I'll use that method again (unless I have a test to cram for!). Memory palaces are unlikely to work for me, and mnemonics don't seem terribly efficient (or effective, in my case).

You have some very common verbs in your list, so I wouldn't worry about those too much: either you'll come across them often enough that they will just sink in, or your overall level in French will improve to the point that it becomes easier for your brain to retain things.

Also, something I've learned the hard way: don't translate things into English all the time in order to understand words. Learning to understand L2 words instinctively (i.e. the way you do with English) will make things a heck of a lot easier.
3 x

User avatar
Carmody
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1747
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:00 am
Location: NYC, NY
Languages: English (N)
French (B1)
Language Log: http://tinyurl.com/zot7wrs
x 3395

Re: The Memory Thread

Postby Carmody » Wed May 03, 2017 7:12 pm

Ingaræð

Your many points are greatly appreciated.

Carmody
1 x

User avatar
reineke
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3570
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:34 pm
Languages: Fox (C4)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6979
x 6554

Re: The Memory Thread

Postby reineke » Wed May 03, 2017 7:21 pm

I don't memorize vocabulary. Neither does my elderly mom.
6 x

User avatar
Jim
Orange Belt
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:18 pm
Languages: English (N), French (intermediate), Spanish (frosty intermediate), Russian (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5766
x 254

Re: The Memory Thread

Postby Jim » Wed May 03, 2017 8:09 pm

I must admit having fallen into the trap of memorising vocabulary. I now have a great French vocabulary of different types of trees, birds and fish, even though I'll struggle to tell the difference between un hêtre and un orme, English or French.

I thoroughly recommend watching Anthony Lauder's "Polynot" presentation (below) or you could alternatively read the transcript here, but the video is quite entertaining.

6 x
La hora más oscura es la que viene antes del nacimiento del sol

Merci de corriger mes erreurs !

Ingaræð
Orange Belt
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:34 pm
Languages: English (N), German (heritage)
Learning: Russian, French, German, Mandarin, Arabic, Spanish.
Mostly forgotten: Italian, Welsh.
x 377

Re: The Memory Thread

Postby Ingaræð » Wed May 03, 2017 8:57 pm

A few more things I've just thought of...

Having a rough idea of the meanings of prefixes and suffixes might be helpful.

Thinking of a context that is personal to you, e.g if you wear glasses, then the sentence je porte des lunettes (and also picturing that) will help you remember porter. A few months ago, I found a pesky moth in my wardrobe. I looked up moth afterwards, and even though I haven't said or read it anywhere since, un mite is etched onto my brain.
0 x

User avatar
Ani
Brown Belt
Posts: 1433
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:58 am
Location: Alaska
Languages: English (N), speaks French, Russian & Icelandic (beginner)
x 3840
Contact:

Re: The Memory Thread

Postby Ani » Thu May 04, 2017 1:01 am

Carmody,

You made three lists of related words where the nuances between them can be harder to suss out. They describe a similar concept but vary in usage. Have you been trying to memorize definitions here FR -> EN? I think you may be better off reading threads on wordreference either in French or both French and English and trying to really understand the differences between the relationships.
1 x
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

User avatar
Carmody
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1747
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:00 am
Location: NYC, NY
Languages: English (N)
French (B1)
Language Log: http://tinyurl.com/zot7wrs
x 3395

Re: The Memory Thread

Postby Carmody » Thu May 04, 2017 1:13 am

My thanks to everyone for their comments.

Jim

Thanks especially for the video; very interesting.

People may also find this one of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q3Mf1Nwfkw

It definitely gives me hope.
Last edited by Carmody on Thu May 04, 2017 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
0 x


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests