Did signing up for and taking a CEFR exam help you?

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
User avatar
luke
Brown Belt
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:09 pm
Languages: English (N). Spanish (intermediate), Esperanto (B1), French (intermediate but rusting)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16948
x 3631

Did signing up for and taking a CEFR exam help you?

Postby luke » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:19 am

Have you found that preparing for or taking a CEFR exam helped your overall progress more than doing whatever you would have done if you weren't explicitly preparing for an exam, but were still dedicated to learning the language?
8 x

User avatar
emk
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1620
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:07 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Languages: English (N), French (B2+)
Badly neglected "just for fun" languages: Middle Egyptian, Spanish.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=723
x 6330
Contact:

Re: Did signing up for and taking a CEFR exam help you?

Postby emk » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:53 am

luke wrote:Have you found that preparing for or taking a CEFR exam helped your overall progress more than doing whatever you would have done if you weren't explicitly preparing for an exam, but were still dedicated to learning the language?

Yes! I worked really hard for about 4 months to prepare for the DELF B2. I started around A2 (according to my tutor, who specialized in exam prep and who used to help administer the exams). I worked hard 20/hours a week for 4 months, and I lived in nearly-complete immersion, AJATT style. And for a couple of those months, I did three 1-hour sessions per week with my tutor focusing on the DELF oral exam. And I passed the B2 exam with a fairly good score—well above the minimum.

The DELF B2 oral exam works as follows:

  • The examiners draw two topics out of a jar, and ask you to look at them quickly and pick one. The topics are usually "current events"-style topics. Mine was, "Should Paris introduce London-style congestion charges?" Each topic has a title and maybe a paragraph of text.
  • You are given something like 10 to 20 minutes to prepare. You have no dictionary or reference materials. You may make notes, but—surprise!—you're not allowed to take them with you for the next step.
  • You enter the room with the examiners, and give a 10 minute presentation without notes. You need to introduce the topic, summarize what the existing views on the topic are, state your opinion, provide evidence to defend your position, and then summarize. You are not expected to be brilliant! This is just a B2 exam. You are, however, expected to be comprehensible.
  • You then spend the final 10 minutes answering questions from the examiners.
I was terrible at this, of course. But that's expected on a B2 exam. The French exams tend to throw you in the deep end, and see if you can survive.

Anyway, it turns out that is an incredibly useful skill. Basically, it forced me to learn how to bullshit coherently in French with minimal preparation, and to defend my opinions. I use these skills constantly, even today. (Every time I call French-speaking tech support, I need to explain what's wrong, and try to convince them to actually fix the problem instead of blowing me off, for example.) There are lots of little tricks for working around weaknesses, and performing a sort of conversation triage: save what you can, and abandon any conversational approach that's beyond your abilities.

I'm not sure I'd do another exam anytime soon. But the DELF B2 is basically what turned me into an occasionally coherent French speaker (on a good day).
16 x

User avatar
zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2528
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: California, Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - German (B2/C1) on/off study: Persian, Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=859
x 7030
Contact:

Re: Did signing up for and taking a CEFR exam help you?

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:03 am

emk has covered in pretty well, but I'll add another yes vote.

The last 2 months of my German motivation have been largely driven by signing up for a TELC - B1 test, taking it and signing up for the TELC B2 test. I'll be taking that in 2 weeks :o !

It's driven me to focus on different strategy - passing these tests requires listening comprehension (i'm ok), reading (no issue) and oral (survivable) and written production - where I need to work. Getting a specific workbook on the tests has allowed me to focus a bit on producing emails, letters and descriptive elements. It's a good exercise. And every word that I don't know in those exercise books has been going into my Anki stack.

The outcome of the test is a confidence builder. I passed! (And frankly I would have died of embarrassment if I didn't pass a B1 test after the effort I've put it.) Don't underestimate the successful post-test effect.
9 x
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Did signing up for and taking a CEFR exam help you?

Postby Cavesa » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:01 pm

YES!!! They definitely helped. Motivation to keep working, to leave my comfort zone and work on my weaknesses, the motivation to stop postponing stuff. I should already sign up for some more :-D

Well, my DELF B2 went a bit differently than EMK's (the center didn't follow the rules, one examinator left at the beginning and came back after I was finished, and I had to spend the whole time in a monologue, with just two questions at the end), my DALF C2 was a much better experience. CAE was different, one of the "troubles" is the moment of surprise concerning your conversation partner, as there are always two candidates examined at the time and their interaction is important. But every time, the exam was a great challenge. Something much more motivating than a stupid grade at school or just guessing my level.

I want to sign up for a Spanish and German exam, but my preparation is a mess for now. Hopefully, I will get back into the proper pace and work on it again. I need to do them this year, as the next one will be a hell of other exams.

And one thing many people in many internet discussions don't take too seriously: the usefulness. You often hear/read "the certificate is not useful, unless you want to use it for a job or studies. Without such a purpose, it is a waste of time and money". Well, when an opportunity to use it arises, it will be far too late to apply. Most language exams are being held just a few times a year (DELF/DALF only twice per year and they always collide with university exam months in my country, DELE three or four times per year, Goethe exams even more in some centers), you will probably need a bit of time for preparation (but it is definitely possible to pass without any specific preparation, it is just harder and an unnecessary risk), and you need to wait for the results (sometimes even as long as three months).

So, there is another big YES: my language exams have already helped me several times.

About the levels:
I believe that A1 and A2 are usually not worth the money. Sure, there are exceptions, such as employers paying classes for their employees and wanting a tangible proof of efficiency. But in general, you can get through these levels quite fast and aim for B1 right away. B1 is already a good level for travelling, it is the level for long term stay application in some countries, it is enough for your CV in a large part of the tourist industry.

There tends to be a bigger jump between B1 and B2. B1 is still about normal everyday situations. B2 exam may already seem a bit more academic. B1 is still mostly about getting the message across. B2 is more about the formal side of language. I believe it is already a very respectable level for most learners. A very useful level. And the exam is a nice step to "finish" this phase of your studies and start the long journey forward. B2 is a level you can proudly put in your CV.

C1 and C2 levels are highly useful. They put you officially on par with people, who have studied the language at university. Well, sometimes better (they are better at the theory and litterature and so on). C2 is not the same thing as the native level, that is another common misconception. To prepare for C level exams, it is highly useful (I'd even say necessary), to digest lots of input in the language. To get something like general education in it (as you are supposed to talk about various stuff). To focus on the formal side of the language, as fewer mistakes are expected from you now than at B2.
14 x

User avatar
tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2889
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: The Lowlands
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Professional: ES, RU
Speak well: DE, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU, FI
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), BG, EUS, ZH (CAN), and a whole lot more.
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
x 6093
Contact:

Re: Did signing up for and taking a CEFR exam help you?

Postby tarvos » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:11 am

It's useful even if you don't sit the exam. The mock exam prepares you for things you otherwise would never think about learning. I feel like learning languages should be about trying to push myself out of my comfort zone and even just sitting the mock exams will do for me in that sense.

I learned much more French, Spanish and Russian that way.
7 x
I hope your world is kind.

Is a girl.

User avatar
IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2554
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Languages: Studying: Esperanto
Maintaining: nada
Tested:
BCS, 1+L/1+R (DLPT5, 2022)
Russian, 3/3 (DLPT5, 2022) 2+ (OPI, 2022)
German, 2L/1+R (DLPT5, 2021)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT IV, 2019)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
x 7265
Contact:

Re: Did signing up for and taking a CEFR exam help you?

Postby IronMike » Mon May 01, 2017 3:05 pm

I'll let you know after 10 June when I'm done with the Esperanto C1 exam!

Paying the 45 euros and registering for the exam certainly has made me be more serious with my study plan.

In the past when I had to take my language tests annually, I usually did up the studying a month or so out from the exam, and in some cases I would improve one or both modalities (I had to take reading and listening tests). Of course there were the years when I'd go down in one or both of them, too!

BL: Registering for a test gives me the impetus to be a bit more serious about my studies!
3 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

User avatar
luke
Brown Belt
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:09 pm
Languages: English (N). Spanish (intermediate), Esperanto (B1), French (intermediate but rusting)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16948
x 3631

Re: Did signing up for and taking a CEFR exam help you?

Postby luke » Thu May 11, 2017 11:50 pm

Super helpful comments. It sounds unanimous. Everyone who spoke up says preparing for and taking a CEFR exam was beneficial to their language learning. :)
0 x


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests