Rounding out the Romance languages

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Daristani
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Re: Rounding out the Romance languages

Postby Daristani » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:01 pm

Another comparative grammar, intended for learners rather than philologists, is Oliver W. Heatwole's A comparative practical grammar of French, Spanish and Italian.

Copies of the original book are pretty expensive these days, but pdf and djvu versions seem to be floating around on the internet.
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Re: Rounding out the Romance languages

Postby Iversen » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:33 pm

lichtrausch wrote:
bpasseri wrote:I could probably get all 4 Romance languages to a C2 before becoming conversational in Mandarin :lol:.

I wish this was an exaggeration...


Or the whole lot (half a dozen or more, not counting dialects) to somewhere between B2 and C2 before being able to have a decent Mandarin conversation or read a Chinese newspaper. I have settled for the Romance language bundle and don't regret the choice.
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Re: Rounding out the Romance languages

Postby reineke » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:02 pm

Another vote for the Romance Fantastic Four, the Magnificent Seven, and the Dirty Dozen.
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Re: Rounding out the Romance languages

Postby donJhon » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:17 pm

Another vote for the Romance Fantastic Four, the Magnificent Seven, and the Dirty Dozen.


I was about to say that there are many more than Four Romance languages. Romanian and Catalan are commonly spoken but there are many more. I recently saw a list of 43 but that included Latin and Dalmatian.

My incomplete list is: Galician, Portuguese, Asturian, Spanish, Aragonese, Catalan, Occitan, French, Norman, Arpitan, Romansh, Lombard, Venetian, Emilian, Sardinian, Corsican, Italian, Neapolitan, Sicilian, Dalmatian, Aromanian, Romanian.

There is supposed to be twenty-two so which one is missing?

EDIT: I will add: Mirendese, Picard, Walloon, Romagnolo, Campidanese.
Last edited by donJhon on Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rounding out the Romance languages

Postby rdearman » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:28 pm

donJhon wrote:
Another vote for the Romance Fantastic Four, the Magnificent Seven, and the Dirty Dozen.


I was about to say that there are many more than Four Romance languages.


4+7+12 = 23
:D
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Re: Rounding out the Romance languages

Postby YtownPolyglot » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:32 pm

tastyonions wrote:
YtownPolyglot wrote:I'm reasonably comfortable in Spanish, most likely at about a B-level. I've tried Portuguese on my own, and I fall into the trap of Spanish coming out of my mother or my pen when it is not requested.

Well, we all have to put up with little peculiarities from family members, I suppose. ;)


Oops! This is why autocorrect is not always our friend, and we should not be involved in an offline discussion of our mother tongue while we submit to a forum! :oops:
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Re: Rounding out the Romance languages

Postby YtownPolyglot » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:33 pm

Come to think of it, if Spanish did come out of my mother, I would have been more likely to hit the C2 level.
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Re: Rounding out the Romance languages

Postby Saim » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:45 am

donJhon wrote:
Another vote for the Romance Fantastic Four, the Magnificent Seven, and the Dirty Dozen.


I was about to say that there are many more than Four Romance languages. Romanian and Catalan are commonly spoken but there are many more. I recently saw a list of 43 but that included Latin and Dalmatian.

My incomplete list is: Galician, Portuguese, Asturian, Spanish, Aragonese, Catalan, Occitan, French, Norman, Arpitan, Romansh, Lombard, Venetian, Emilian, Sardinian, Corsican, Italian, Neapolitan, Sicilian, Dalmatian, Aromanian, Romanian.

There is supposed to be twenty-two so which one is missing?

EDIT: I will add: Mirendese, Picard, Walloon, Romagnolo, Campidanese.


Ethnologue (which despite its errors and clear bias is the most comprehensive language list available) lists 44 Romance languages, so maybe that's what the list you saw was based on.

Eastern
Aromanian
Romanian
Istro-Romanian
Megleno-Romanian

Italo-Dalmatian
Istriot
Italian
Judeo-Italian
Neapolitan-Calabrese
Sicilian

Gallo-Italian
Emilian
Ligurian
Lombard
Piedmontese
Romagnol
Venetian

Oïl
French
Cajun French
Jèrriais
Picard
Walloon
Zarphatic (Judeo-French)
Arpitan

Rhaetian
Friulian
Ladin
Romansh

Ibero-Romance
Catalan
Occitan
Shuadit (Judeo-Occitan)
Asturian
Mirandese
Extremaduran
Ladino (Judeo-Spanish)
Spanish
Charapa Spanish
Fala (Galaico-Portuguese of Extremadura)
Galician
Minderico (originally a secret code spoken by Portuguese textile producers, I see sources on the internet claiming it has become a natural language)
Portuguese

Pyrenean-Mozarabic
Aragonese

Southern
Corsican
Campidanese Sardinian
Gallurese Sardinian
Logudorese Sardinian
Sassarese Sardinian

There's quite a lot to object to in this list, though.

1) Arpitan is not a dialect of Oïl, but a third branch of France's Romance languages independent from both Oïl and Occitan.
2) It's strange to include Jèrriais as a language but not the other dialect of insular Normand (Guernésiais), or indeed continental Normand (especially when Picard and Walloon are also counted separately to French).
3) Aragonese is clearly quite closely related to Spanish, Catalan and Occitan (especially Gascon). I'm not sure what it's doing in a branch of it's own.
4) Corsican is much closer to Italian (and even more to some Tuscan dialects) than it is to Sardinian and should be placed in the Italo-Dalmatian group. Sassarese and Gallurese are not varieties of Sardinian proper, but are part of the Tuscan diasystem along with Corsican and Standard Italian.
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