Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

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smallwhite
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Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby smallwhite » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:21 am

jsega wrote:Have you checked out Clozemaster? It seems if exposure rather than perfection was your main priority then its less stringent form of SRS would be right up your alley.


Yes, I have, thank you. Tried it several times and never found it worthwhile. Or cloze in general, which is more time-consuming and where I spend more time looking at words OTHER than the word I'm trying to learn.

With single-word recognition cards, Memrise:
... 1 second looking at the new word
... 2 seconds picking the right answer
... 3 seconds staring at the new word while waiting for the stars to shoot and the page to turn
..... (1+3) / 6 = 67% of the time is productive, 10 cards per minute

With single-word production cards, Memrise:
... 1 second looking at question in L1
... 2 seconds picking the right answer
... 3 seconds staring at the new word while waiting for the stars to shoot and the page to turn
..... 3 / 6 = 50% of the time is productive, 10 cards per minute

With cloze sentences:
... 3 seconds reading a sentence without the word I'm trying to learn
... 2 seconds picking the right answer
... 3 seconds staring at the new word while waiting for the stars to shoot and the page to turn
..... 3 / 8 = 38% of the time is productive, 7.5 cards per minute

jsega wrote:then its less stringent form of SRS


I only do multiple-choice tests, and at this early stage, only L2->L1.
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Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby jsega » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:47 am

smallwhite wrote:
jsega wrote:Have you checked out Clozemaster? It seems if exposure rather than perfection was your main priority then its less stringent form of SRS would be right up your alley.


Yes, I have, thank you. Tried it several times and never found it worthwhile. Or cloze in general, which is more time-consuming and where I spend more time looking at words OTHER than the word I'm trying to learn.

With single-word recognition cards, Memrise:
... 1 second looking at the new word
... 2 seconds picking the right answer
... 3 seconds staring at the new word while waiting for the stars to shoot and the page to turn
..... (1+3) / 6 = 67% of the time is productive, 10 cards per minute

With single-word production cards, Memrise:
... 1 second looking at question in L1
... 2 seconds picking the right answer
... 3 seconds staring at the new word while waiting for the stars to shoot and the page to turn
..... 3 / 6 = 50% of the time is productive, 10 cards per minute

With cloze sentences:
... 3 seconds reading a sentence without the word I'm trying to learn
... 2 seconds picking the right answer
... 3 seconds staring at the new word while waiting for the stars to shoot and the page to turn
..... 3 / 8 = 38% of the time is productive, 7.5 cards per minute

jsega wrote:then its less stringent form of SRS


I only do multiple-choice tests, and at this early stage, only L2->L1.


Hmmm in addition to your calculations, it makes sense you wouldn't prefer it on further reflection. I know some people do use cloze deletions as a more thorough form of study (seeing vocab in context obviously gives some supposed benefits), whereas you are just studying a large chunk of vocab as a means to an end (extensive reading among other things I imagine), as quickly as possible. I'm actually thinking I rather like your strategy :lol:

If you don't mind my asking, which type of Vocab flashcard do you prefer and mainly use, recognition or production, or do you use both equally?
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smallwhite
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Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby smallwhite » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:47 am

jsega wrote:...whereas you are just studying a large chunk of vocab as a means to an end (extensive reading among other things I imagine), as quickly as possible.


Yes, I cram vocabulary at this early stage in order to start to read and listen asap. I continue cramming like this for a while, and then I gradually shift to mining words from my reading instead.

> which type of Vocab flashcard do you prefer and mainly use, recognition or production, or do you use both equally?

I prefer to use single-word cards (with definite article because that's how they usually come in), recognition, multiple choice. But if I'm using Quizlet, sometimes I switch directions, sometimes I play the matching game and sometimes I answer without multiple-choice; just for some variety.
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Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby jsega » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:06 am

smallwhite wrote:
jsega wrote:...whereas you are just studying a large chunk of vocab as a means to an end (extensive reading among other things I imagine), as quickly as possible.


Yes, I cram vocabulary at this early stage in order to start to read and listen asap. I continue cramming like this for a while, and then I gradually shift to mining words from my reading instead.

> which type of Vocab flashcard do you prefer and mainly use, recognition or production, or do you use both equally?

I prefer to use single-word cards (with definite article because that's how they usually come in), recognition, multiple choice. But if I'm using Quizlet, sometimes I switch directions just for some variety.


Thanks for the reply. I'm actually using Memrise and Quizlet myself, though I'm favoring Quizlet now and just using Memrise for one deck that I made for my Earworms audio course.

I've dabbled in most of the popular flashcard programs out there and I've recently ended up BACK at Quizlet (was one of the first ones that I came in contact with a long time ago). I decided to try out a pro membership for the Long-term Learning SRS that they promoted. I'm also testing their beta Learning Assistant feature on iOS (actually use an Android phone but I have an iPad) and I really love that in combination with the SRS they have now and all the other features. Their TTS seems to be really above average too which has made me more comfortable with not using a lot of extra time to input audio into flashcards (which I got burned out doing with Anki).

Creating a set on Quizlet, initially easing it into my memory with Learning Assistant, and then using the SRS on there feels really good in combination with their other features. They seem to be implementing all the most popular key features of other popular SRS. Not to mention they have the most premade sets. If they keep it up, Quizlet will definitely be the best pre-packaged flashcard service, I already think it is (though Learning Assistant is still in beta so maybe not yet).

......sorry I've become a Quizlet fanboy in the past few months :lol:
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Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby smallwhite » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:21 am

jsega wrote:......sorry I've become a Quizlet fanboy in the past few months :lol:

I love it, too! Shout your love for it in my thread Do You Like Quizlet? - you're the only paid Quizlet member I've seen. Please tell us more about it!

Quizlet is actually perfect for increasing vocab at OP's level. You don't have to use the SRS part if you don't want to. There are other parts with matching games, spelling / dictation, etc, that lets you fiddle with your set of words in all sorts of ways, after which you'll remember them a lot better, can read them faster, and they'll simply feel a lot more familiar.
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Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby Dylan95 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:27 pm

smallwhite wrote:With German, I crammed vocabulary from other learners' vocabulary lists. Spent about 3 months and covered about 8000 words. Then read a bit of news and current affairs. Then read fiction without dictionary (starting from my 8th month of German).

Then with Swedish, which is easier after German, crammed about 1500 words over about 1.5 months, and then read progressively as described in my next post below, and then read fiction without dictionary, comprehending 96.3% to 98.4% of the words.

Then with Dutch, which is easier after German and Swedish, crammed about 2900 words over about 1.5 months, then fiction comprehending 97.1% first book, and 99.0% same book 2 months later.

I used flashcards and SRS, but did not necessarily review hard words more, did not follow the "due dates" religiously, and only studied each lot of words for 2 to 4 months. Aimed for exposure and not perfection. I use Memrise and Quizlet which are more pleasant than Anki; can't stand Anki.


This post is gold. "Exposure and not perfection"

Thank you.
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