Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
User avatar
Dylan95
Orange Belt
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:11 pm
Location: USA
Languages: English (N)
Currently Studying
Russian C1
Uzbek B1
Ukrainian B1~

Previously Studied and mostly forgotten
French
Italian
Latin
x 399

Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby Dylan95 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:18 am

This question I'm sure has been answered many times, but I've never been satisfied with the results.

How do you fill in the large vocab back when you know a language quite well, perhaps at a conversational level, but not enough to participate in extensive reading (i.e. understanding 95% of the vocab on a given page).

For me this has undoubtedly been the most difficult part of learning Russian. I speak the language decently at a conversational level. I have many Russian friends and we have no trouble conversing in Russian on just about any topic. But when I pick up a book, even as easy as Harry Potter etc. I am bombarded with many words that I do not know, it makes reading too unenjoyable for it to be an effective means of increasing vocab.

What can I do to bridge this gap and reach that point?

I'd be really happy with any advice anyone can give. This is the highest proficiency I've ever achieved in a foreign language and at this point I don't know what steps to take.
2 x

DangerDave2010
Orange Belt
Posts: 214
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:10 am
Languages: gibberish (N)
x 291

Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby DangerDave2010 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:18 pm

Try reading subtitles, comic books, stories and books for younger children.

Books vary greatly in vocabulary diversity, try the Twilight Saga.
2 x

User avatar
Systematiker
Blue Belt
Posts: 823
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 6:09 pm
Languages: ENG (N); DEU (C2+) // SWG (~C1); BAR (~C1); SPA (4/3); FRA (~C1); SCO (~C1); NLD (~B2*); LAT (Latinum Bavaricum); GRC (Graecum Bavaricum); CAT (~B2*); POR (~B2*); SWE (~B2*); HBO (Hebraicum); DAN (~B1*); RUS (~A2); KOR (~A1); FAS (still a raw beginner)
*Averaged for high receptive skill
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7332
x 2070

Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby Systematiker » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:37 pm

If you've got something that fits the bill, use something that you know inside and out. It's not as fun as normal extensive reading, because you've got a lot of processing going on, but if you know something well down to the sentence level, you can go way down on % of words known and still have it comprehensible (as well as picking up vocab and some grammar patterns). It's not intensive, because your not looking things up, but it's not quite free-flowing extensive either.

I actually just did a bit in Russian, where I read at an A1 if I'm lucky, and picked up a couple of words and what appears to be an associative construction (I'm not sure what else it might do, but it's certainly when two people are together). Going in, I had one known word. I start with passages from the Bible that I can quote in a couple of languages, though, so you really have to know something to pull what I'm suggesting.
2 x

User avatar
smallwhite
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2386
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Native: Cantonese;
Good: English, French, Spanish, Italian;
Mediocre: Mandarin, German, Swedish, Dutch.
.
x 4876

Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby smallwhite » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:19 pm

With German, I crammed vocabulary from other learners' vocabulary lists. Spent about 3 months and covered about 8000 words. Then read a bit of news and current affairs. Then read fiction without dictionary (starting from my 8th month of German).

Then with Swedish, which is easier after German, crammed about 1500 words over about 1.5 months, and then read progressively as described in my next post below, and then read fiction without dictionary, comprehending 96.3% to 98.4% of the words.

Then with Dutch, which is easier after German and Swedish, crammed about 2900 words over about 1.5 months, then fiction comprehending 97.1% first book, and 99.0% same book 2 months later.

I used flashcards and SRS, but did not necessarily review hard words more, did not follow the "due dates" religiously, and only studied each lot of words for 2 to 4 months. Aimed for exposure and not perfection. I use Memrise and Quizlet which are more pleasant than Anki; can't stand Anki.
Last edited by smallwhite on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:29 am, edited 3 times in total.
7 x
Dialang or it didn't happen.

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby Cavesa » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:32 pm

1. I second smallwhite's tips on learning vocab lists made by other learners in SRS. I have never managed to get that far (8000 words, that is really impressive and I should strive to get that far too this time), but I have noticed improvements even with much less SRSing.

For example, I liked the beginning of this huge course: http://www.memrise.com/course/173195/to ... ds-part-1/ but unfortunately I cannot tell you much about the later lessons (at least not yet)

2.Intensive reading. Readlang, LWT, kindle with a dictionary (that is a really nice function), or the good old paper.

3.Intermediate and advanced courses and vocab books. Unfortunately, I'f afraid Russian might have fewer such great resources than French or Spanish or English, but who knows what you can find.
2 x

crush
Blue Belt
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:35 pm
Languages: EN (N), ES, ZH
Maintain: EUS, YUE, JP, HAW
Study: TGL, SV
On Hold: RU
x 953

Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby crush » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:23 pm

The Princeton Russian course has a nice set of interesting/funny dialogs that would maybe be interesting to read through. The old 1945 Assimil Russian course might be worth reading as well. Otherwise, i second/third others' suggestion of reading stories you already know very well. I crammed a few thousand Spanish words before doing extensive reading and that was enough to get me into the 90-95% range. Also, try maybe getting in touch with Keys about their interlinear texts, they have quite a few in Russian. Interlinear Books also have one book in Russian.

EDIT: And someone just posted this here: http://paralleltext.io/ They have a parallel text of Anna Karenina.
2 x

User avatar
smallwhite
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2386
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Native: Cantonese;
Good: English, French, Spanish, Italian;
Mediocre: Mandarin, German, Swedish, Dutch.
.
x 4876

Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby smallwhite » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:34 pm

smallwhite wrote:Then with Swedish, which is easier after German, crammed about 1500 words over about 1.5 months and then read fiction without dictionary, comprehending 96.3% to 98.4% of the words.


I crammed fewer Swedish words before I started reading novels without dictionary because I also:

* read and listened with LingQ. Used articles that were as difficult as tolerable.
* intensively read a few parallel short stories from http://www.lonweb.org/
* downloaded free teen fiction from Amazon, read one scene in English then the same scene in Swedish, trying very hard to understand every Swedish word either from context or from memory of the scene in English. Did this for a few chapters.
* read a simple, straightforward and predictable police procedural in Swedish, trying very hard to understand every word from context. Then looked up some of the rest.

So, I was reading progressively from easy (more assisted) to hard (less assisted).
2 x
Dialang or it didn't happen.

Xmmm
Blue Belt
Posts: 821
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:19 am
Languages: ru it tr
x 2221

Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby Xmmm » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:57 pm

In my case, after almost finishing Assimil, I signed up at LingQ. The beginning level Russian stuff is not very interesting, so I uploaded the texts of We and Heart of a Dog. I was not ready for extensive reading, but I did it anyway. Really felt like my brain was melting and had really weird ideas sometimes of what was going on in the novels ... often lost. So what?

Then I started going through the Echo of Moscow stuff, still far above my level. Only ... after doing it for a million words, it's no longer above my level. Now for a typical radio program, I can read/listen and get 80% of it, just hitting the pause button occasionally when I hit a cluster of unknown words.

I will say again that it is highly motivating for me that LingQ keeps track of how many words I know, how many words I've read, how many hours I've listened. And that it lets me search text on "intermediate 2" or "advanced 1" and tells me what percentage of words are unknown for me in that text, with green/yellow/red indicators.

So I would say, don't worry about "I don't know enough words to read Harry Potter". Read it anyway.

It's very easy to download transcripts and audio from Echo of Moscow and if you have the slightest interest in Russian current affairs, it should be endlessly entertaining (it is for me anyway).

Just power through the reading for a few months and it will get easier. Keep Excedrin on hand, though.
2 x

Ещё раз сунешь голову туда — окажешься внутри. Поняла, Фемида? -- аигел

jsega
Orange Belt
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:44 pm
Languages: English (N) Spanish (beginner)
x 92

Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby jsega » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:25 pm

smallwhite wrote:With German, I crammed vocabulary from other learners' vocabulary lists. Spent about 3 months and covered about 8000 words. Then read a bit of news and current affairs. Then read fiction without dictionary (starting from my 8th month of German).

Then with Swedish, which is easier after German, crammed about 1500 words over about 1.5 months and then read fiction without dictionary, comprehending 96.3% to 98.4% of the words.

Then with Dutch, which is easier after German and Swedish, about 2900 words over about 1.5 months, then fiction comprehending 97.1% first book, and 99.0% same book 2 months later.

I used flashcards and SRS, but did not necessarily review hard words more, did not follow the "due dates" religiously, and only studied each lot of words for 2 to 4 months. Aimed for exposure and not perfection. I use Memrise and Quizlet which are more pleasant than Anki; can't stand Anki.


Have you checked out Clozemaster? It seems if exposure rather than perfection was your main priority then its less stringent form of SRS would be right up your alley.
2 x
: 8 / 163 Breaking the Spanish Barrier - Beginner:

User avatar
Elenia
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:22 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), Swedish (C1), French (Massively Atrophied) German (lowly beginner, somehow learnt to read)


Finnish?!
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=708
x 3280
Contact:

Re: Increasing vocabulary when vocab level is still not high enough to do extensive reading.

Postby Elenia » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:32 pm

Intensive reading and focused vocabulary study. Read shorter stories and easier things first - and remember, easier doesn't necessarily mean children's books. Try finding booktubers who talk about the books you want to read, or finding reviews for them written in Russian. Bloggers are best for this, or the kind of reviewers you'd find on a site like Goodreads rather than the review you'd find in a national newspaper. Listen-Read, or have the English version open as a reference as you read in Russian. Finally, stick with it. It can and does get easier!

Good luck!
3 x


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests