Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

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aokoye
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby aokoye » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:47 am

edit - it's not always worth it to try to explain myself when at least some people, PM included, understand what I'm saying :)
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby Finny » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:12 am

Ani wrote:
aokoye wrote:I don't think the kids' English will be damaged at all. It's their French that I worry about.


I have been speaking only French to my toddler. Yep, he might become a teen with awful French, or in 12 years of study we both might speak beautifully. The other option is that my kids know 0 other foreign languages. It's super easy for non-parents and and parents with lovely options like "language of choice immersion school" (and a child whose education style fits that school) to suggest better ways of raising children, but it is far enough divorced from reality to be a joke. Maybe I'll just hire an au pair. Maybe a personal chef while I am at it. Maybe I'll find that mythical f'in immersion play group and my child will be welcomed with open arms among all the native speaking children without me having to teach them a word in my faulty French.


Heck, I'm still waiting for that magical immersion play group in Spanish, never mind in French. In the mean time, I'm pretty busy teaching them stuff.

My daughter can say pretty much anything in Spanish that she can in English, and my son chirps "salut" (or "hola" from time to time), asks for "lait" (rarely "leche", oddly enough), and says "oui" (or "si!") when responding affirmatively. My daughter is willing to try out more words each week in French, my son is separating his languages already (he does use some French with mom but primarily uses it with me), and both kids understand all three languages as well as any of us can speak them. I've written elsewhere that it's often better to just stick to what you know is working rather than try to convince folks who don't believe it will.
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby aokoye » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:47 am

Finny wrote:I've written elsewhere that it's often better to just stick to what you know is working rather than try to convince folks who don't believe it will.


See my general thought isn't that you'll somehow teach your kids incorrectly rather it's, here's to hoping your children have the desire to keep on using the language. That's what I wasn't able to easily get across earlier.
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:18 am

aokoye wrote:
Finny wrote:I've written elsewhere that it's often better to just stick to what you know is working rather than try to convince folks who don't believe it will.


See my general thought isn't that you'll somehow teach your kids incorrectly rather it's, here's to hoping your children have the desire to keep on using the language. That's what I wasn't able to easily get across earlier.


A very good point actually. My wife and I have discussed this and have concluded we must be supportive of our chilrdren's interests whatever they may be, and if that's musical instruments for example, an area I have no clue about (I don't dislike musical intstruments, it's just not something I'm very familiar with), and languages aren't of interest at all, then we must support that.

I would hate to have my children grow up thinking they were forced to do something they never liked and that no support was given to what they really found enjoyable.

In all reality, it's probably a long shot that they will be interested in languages as much as myself, once my children are older. However, at least by using French with my children (just clarify, I have only one child currently), it will, well, be used and become a means of communication that's a mainstay of the family.

They may even refuse to speak French at some point, but with (planned) exposure to francophone culture in francophone countries, in which the language evidently illustrates more practical usefulness or even more of a need, the value might be more understood and appreciated, particularly when people their age (ie friends) use that language.

If circumstances don't allow for these key events and the language is rejected, not much I can do to change that. Better off accepting it. I can only hope as you say aokoye, that they do want to continue using the language.

This is where globalisation really irritates me. English is far too dominant on a global scale, so much so, one day (even now if expats hang around in expat bubbles) the value of a foreign language even in its homeland can potentially be weakened, but that's a whole 'nother topic.
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby Finny » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:10 pm

I don't really worry about whether the kids are going to want to use the languages when they grow up; we can't control that any more than we can control what kinds of foods they eat as adults, whether they take an interest in musical instruments, whether they care about fellow human beings, or whether they pursue higher education or humanitarian causes.

That doesn't keep us from sharing our passions and values with them. We create an environment rich in language, music, sustainability, and pretty much everything we value (e.g., cooking homemade meals with healthy ingredients, etc). We want our kids to be happy and healthy, and at the same time we try to live the best lives we know how in accordance with the things we believe in.

As parents, these are things you think about all the time already. There's so much already on your plate that there's not much point in dwelling on all the bad things that could possibly happen. You'd never get out of bed otherwise. :D
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby whatiftheblog » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:47 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:This is where globalisation really irritates me. English is far too dominant on a global scale, so much so, one day (even now if expats hang around in expat bubbles) the value of a foreign language even in its homeland can potentially be weakened, but that's a whole 'nother topic.


I wouldn't rag on globalization too much in this regard, especially because the data suggest English will be declining in importance compared to.... http://www.forbes.com/sites/pascalemman ... -be-french :D This is an especially interesting projection now, given that the cultural influence of the US globally and the UK in Europe will no doubt wane over the coming years.
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby DaveBee » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:57 pm

whatiftheblog wrote: the cultural influence of the US globally and the UK in Europe will no doubt wane over the coming years.
Why do you think that? What rivals do you see appearing?
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby rdearman » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:00 pm

whatiftheblog wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:This is where globalisation really irritates me. English is far too dominant on a global scale, so much so, one day (even now if expats hang around in expat bubbles) the value of a foreign language even in its homeland can potentially be weakened, but that's a whole 'nother topic.


I wouldn't rag on globalization too much in this regard, especially because the data suggest English will be declining in importance compared to.... http://www.forbes.com/sites/pascalemman ... -be-french :D This is an especially interesting projection now, given that the cultural influence of the US globally and the UK in Europe will no doubt wane over the coming years.

If you're in the habit of reading news at Forbes, you might want to update your malware software. :lol:
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby whatiftheblog » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:34 pm

DaveBee wrote:
whatiftheblog wrote: the cultural influence of the US globally and the UK in Europe will no doubt wane over the coming years.
Why do you think that? What rivals do you see appearing?


I don't really think of it in terms of rivals appearing, but rather in terms of the geopolitical shifts I can see potentially happening. If the US pursues protectionist/isolationist policies, particularly with respect to trade and immigration, America's global stature and reputation will be affected. I see China ramping up its investment in Latin America considerably, for instance, which would obviously affect power politics in the Western Hemisphere and beyond. Sub-Saharan Africa is the next frontier, and China's leaps and bounds ahead of the US there, because all we saw for the longest time were malaria and HIV, whereas China correctly saw untapped potential. This isn't to say that China will rule us all, I think that trope has been blown out of proportion; besides China, I can see stronger economies like Chile, Brazil and South Africa expanding their reach. (I'm deliberately keeping Russia out of this analysis because I can't talk about it without getting political.) I do think that the influence of smaller regional powers will become more significant/formative, especially if the same resources we're now getting out of the Global South can be cultivated closer to home at scale. Gulf states are investing heavily in smaller economies in Africa and Asia, particularly those where agricultural production can be optimized (I read a fascinating study on massive investment in rice paddies to ensure sufficient rice for Ramadan, for instance) and that, too, will affect power plays.

As for the UK, if the footage coming out of all of the latest Brussels talks is any indication, the EU seems to have definitively adopted a "bye, Felicia" attitude. Post-Brexit, it's going to be France, Germany, and probably Poland leading the way.
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby DaveBee » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:45 pm

whatiftheblog wrote:
DaveBee wrote:
whatiftheblog wrote: the cultural influence of the US globally and the UK in Europe will no doubt wane over the coming years.
Why do you think that? What rivals do you see appearing?


I don't really think of it in terms of rivals appearing, but rather in terms of the geopolitical shifts I can see potentially happening. If the US pursues protectionist/isolationist policies, particularly with respect to trade and immigration, America's global stature and reputation will be affected. I see China ramping up its investment in Latin America considerably, for instance, which would obviously affect power politics in the Western Hemisphere and beyond. Sub-Saharan Africa is the next frontier, and China's leaps and bounds ahead of the US there, because all we saw for the longest time were malaria and HIV, whereas China correctly saw untapped potential. This isn't to say that China will rule us all, I think that trope has been blown out of proportion; besides China, I can see stronger economies like Chile, Brazil and South Africa expanding their reach. (I'm deliberately keeping Russia out of this analysis because I can't talk about it without getting political.) I do think that the influence of smaller regional powers will become more significant/formative, especially if the same resources we're now getting out of the Global South can be cultivated closer to home at scale. Gulf states are investing heavily in smaller economies in Africa and Asia, particularly those where agricultural production can be optimized (I read a fascinating study on massive investment in rice paddies to ensure sufficient rice for Ramadan, for instance) and that, too, will affect power plays.

As for the UK, if the footage coming out of all of the latest Brussels talks is any indication, the EU seems to have definitively adopted a "bye, Felicia" attitude. Post-Brexit, it's going to be France, Germany, and probably Poland leading the way.
Politics and culture are different things. None of that touches US/UK media exports, or the place of English as the default L2.
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