Smallwhite needs help with Dutch grammar

[smallwhite]

Hi All,

This thread will be for me to ask grammar and vocabulary questions in Dutch. Thanks in advance for your help, for trying to help, or just for reading!

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Question 1

I'm learning how to express the English gerund in Dutch, for example, "reading, listening, writing and speaking" that we talk about a lot. I know that verbs or actions can be made nouns in various ways: lezen, het lezen, de verbetering, de hulp. But I also saw this te-infinitive construction:

Door te verbinden en te adviseren, draagt de Taalunie bij aan een levendige Nederlandse taal. (Source: taalunie.org)

What is this verb form called (so I can look it up)? Wikipedia-en mentions an "Extended form" but doesn't mention its use as a gerund. Wikipedia-nl gives it a very brief mention, "het/te <gerundium>", but I'd like more information.

Or is the te just there because of the door, and te verbinden is thus not another form of verbal noun like het lezen is? (Source: dutchgrammar.com) Which means I can't say Te luisteren is xxx like I would Luisteren is xxx or Het luisteren is xxx?

Thanks!

[lorinth]

There's also the expression "zijn aan het + infinitief", bij voorbeeld "ik ben aan het lezen" = I am reading.

On the site you are referring to (dutchgrammar.com), they call it duratief.

If you can read some French, there are more examples and explanations on this site (nlfacile.com), where they call such forms "de progressieve vorm".

[EDIT] I just noticed in your profile that you have C1 French. So I should have written "As you can read French..." No offence intended

[tarvos]

The te-vorm is not a verbal noun, rather it is a way of inserting a verb after certain prepositions which is used in order to achieve certain meanings.

Door te werken usually implies a way or a cause of doing things - it would be translated in English with the -ing form of a verb, which quite simply doesn't exist in Dutch, so we need to use te + infinitive instead, which in Dutch is your only option. Gerunds are still verbs - they don't function as nouns.

Neither can you really say "te luisteren" on its own in a copula sentence. You would either say "luisteren" or "het luisteren" depending on context.

[smallwhite]

So I should have written "As you can read French..." No offence intended

No problem at all, and thanks for your reply!

The te-vorm...

That was very clear, tarvos. Thanks a lot!

[smallwhite]

Question 2

Kijk!
Laten we gaan!
Laat mij het doen!

Do you conjugate like that both when you're addressing one person and when you're addressing more than one person?

Kijk, John!
Kijk, kinderen!
Laten we gaan, John!
Laten we gaan, guys!
Laat mij het doen, John!
Laat mij het doen, ladies!

Thanks in advance.

[LadyGrey1986]

Yes, your sample sentences are correct!

An good example woud als be: Laat dat, kinderen! (Stop it, Kids!)

[Jar-Ptitsa]

"Kijk, John" might be that you've seen John and tell the others that they must look. It's the comma - a native should asnwer this, but if you want to tell John to look, then I wouldn't use a comma.

e.g. "Kijk John, daar is de café" = tell John
"Kijk, John is daar" = tell others that John is there

[tarvos]

Question 2

Kijk!
Laten we gaan!
Laat mij het doen!

Do you conjugate like that both when you're addressing one person and when you're addressing more than one person?

Kijk, John!
Kijk, kinderen!
Laten we gaan, John!
Laten we gaan, guys!
Laat mij het doen, John!
Laat mij het doen, ladies!

Thanks in advance.

Yes, you address people as such. However, if you want to address John personally to tell him to look, you don't need the comma per sé (although you could use it). If you say Kijk John, it's more got a sense of explaining to it, very similar to the Spanish "mira" at the beginning of a phrase, almost used as a filler.

Sometimes, the infinitive is also used as an imperative: Niet roken! Niet dansen! Niet voetballen! etc.

If you want nice translations for guys and ladies, we would normally add "jongens" (with or without comma) en ladies we would translate as "dames". Dames in Dutch doesn't really have the connotation of royalty as much anymore as much as it used to.

[smallwhite]

Thank you, LadyGrey1986, vogeltje and tarvos!

And you've reminded me that I haven't learned Dutch punctuation at all. I was using (my understanding of) English puntuation.

[Jar-Ptitsa]

Also 'laten wij gaan' sounds like a translation from English (for me), I think it's more Dutch to say 'gaan we' or 'zullen we (nu) gaan'

'laat het' or 'laten we dat' means stop now about this and 'laat gaan' also, to let it be and stop.

* I'm not native *